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If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

sebastianmarshall.com

221–230 of 301 posts

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#221

"Dear Sebastian, we quit, piss off. Best, Sam, Lee, and Jon." Seriously, this is just ridiculous. Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming at all, let alone from a CEO that's off in Asia staying up "20 hours" to print flyers for one of his other companies, while he bitches that you're not reneging on your teaching commitments (which I would presume he knew about when he took…

A couple points - They're partners, not employees. Yes, I'll suffer at the printshop when I promised it. My colleague offered to do it, but he just had a baby and it would be ridiculous to keep him all night. No one else was available on Sunday night. > they tend to be neither very good businessmen nor good employers. My staff like me, I pay top of market (sometimes 10x market pay, if the person is worth it but short…

I have you "tagged" here on HN because usually I enjoy reading what you write.

But this blog post was, well, astronomically short sighted...

> on what was supposed to be a very short project that dragged on.

Which ties into my almost instant reaction; "so this is an email he wrote when pissed off things weren't going so well".

You talk about employing the best people, who can get things to work. One of the thoughts I had, especially reading the stuff you mention about purchasing resources and AWS, is that what the project seems to lack is good administration.

One thing I have learned about projects is having a really really good admin person can make them fly. But you seem to have been managing the money and the decisions.

So to be harsh (but only as harsh as you've been :)) it appears you are a fucking Joker too.

The solution to people clearing stuff with you isn't to tell them not to clear stuff with you - long term that has no practical benefit, and isn't in keeping with human nature. Solving the money issue is not entirely solved by giving them a credit card.

The solution is to find a really solid admin person to fix these issues; employ someone who's job it is to address all the nitpicks and the money.

One other thing you probably need to learn; there is a distinct difference between the honest truth and simply being abusive. You're calling them fucking Jokers, and telling them you're not. Ok so there is "nice" stuff wrapped up in there too - but regardless of whether they are employees or partners this is just de-motivating behaviour.

Possibly even deflection.

If you're going to tear them a new one; do it right. Or if you're trying to motivate them; do it right. This was a wierd mix of the two :)

I don't know much about you. I don't know much about the context.So I don't want to jump up and down and make too much criticism (or accusation). But from what I have observed let me offer some advice; when you have a multi-million dollar company with hundreds or thousands of employees then this is the sort of email you can send, where it indicts no one specifically as a Joker, and be lauded for it. I feel like that is what you modelled on :) Till that point - small teams need intense supportive leadership. It requires you to constantly be bothered by the nitpicking.

Saying "just build it, till then I can't sell it" is not leadership :)

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#222
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple points - They're partners, not employees. Yes, I'll suffer at the printshop when I promised it. My colleague offered to do it, but he just had a baby and it would be ridiculous to keep him all night. No one else was available on Sunday night. > they tend to be neither very good businessmen nor good employers. My staff like me, I pay top of market (sometimes 10x market pay, if the person is worth it but short…

> My colleague offered to do it, but he just had a baby and it would be ridiculous to keep him all night. No one else was available on Sunday night. But then why make it a point in your argument? > My staff like me [...] everyone is treated great [...] there's no task management Nope, sorry, that doesn't make sense. > I want people to be their best and keep their word. And again, that email was to business partners,…

"there's no task management"

Maybe that's why things are now weeks behind?

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#223

"Dear Sebastian, we quit, piss off. Best, Sam, Lee, and Jon." Seriously, this is just ridiculous. Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming at all, let alone from a CEO that's off in Asia staying up "20 hours" to print flyers for one of his other companies, while he bitches that you're not reneging on your teaching commitments (which I would presume he knew about when he took…

Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming One one is being publicly shamed. From the article: Names and details changed, for obvious reasons.

The people in the story will still know who they are, and anyone who knows that they work with Sebastian will know too. Yes, if they get upset, it's "their problem", but "their problems" become "your problems" if it affects the relationship.

I posted a blog entry about some code I'd inherited from a friend. I posted a problem I'd found (really wasn't even his fault specifically) and my fix. Very matter of fact - I wasn't a joker about it. He still read it, saw himself in it, and saw it as a public shaming, even though the client wasn't mentioned, nor was his name mentioned.

Yeah, I can say it was 'his problem' in how he chose to deal with it, but it strained a friendship if nothing else.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#224
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect your work and achievements and I agree, a lot of people who have accomplished something do NOT brag about it. Coincidentally, a LOT of people who have accomplished pretty much nothing do brag and write and blog a LOT about it... often to great success. So, it is just fair to ask what references, credits and medals this big-mouthed blogger has to show for all his very big words of "making a way" and being be…

OK, but, why? Of all the reasons to disagree with someone -- or, in the case of most of this particular thread, hate them -- "they haven't done something I've heard of" seems like a pretty weak one. If you found out that he had been behind some kind of huge success, would you agree with him more? Or, if you found out that he was born into money, would that make him more wrong? If he could fill a paper with things tha…

You are right, it is not in that post alone but reading through the comments, some of his replies and (especially) some of his others posts linked in here just all added up to this personal impression. I don't know the guy and from what I read I do not want to know him but that's just my personal gut feeling. I don't like those hyperactive, over-psyched, narcissistic, ADHD over-over-achiever types, I find them repulsive. I cannot help it.

In my own experience the people you can actually learn something valuable from are the more quiet ones, especially the ones who have actually achieved something. They can share something much more valuable than mere thoughts and ideas on strategy - they can share experience because they have done it. There is a saying that all strategies and battle plans hold up well until first enemy contact. I can relate to this - so in this understanding, if he had done and achieved something worthy of that "1%" mantra with his ideas and theories then it would be extremely interesting and valuable to read about it.

All I see now on his blog are personal thoughts, meandering, theoretical ideas and a TON of self-applauding and getting psyched on success which is all fine for a personal blog and probably has great therapeutic value for him but in a lot of those posts he does take the position of teaching, educating or even preaching. And he does not just present it as "hey I have an idea" and then follows up with "and that's how it worked in the end". He just presents ideas and how awesome they are and how right he is. And then it takes but 2 minutes to find an incredible amount of contradictions - he is contradicting himself and his own ideas, guidelines and mantras from one post to the next.

These two facts plus the personal impression and gut feeling together are more than enough for me to seriously question his legitimacy. He doesn't feel very authentic, honest and driven by "positive energy"... he feels very driven, fragmented and unfocused, however.

And the question for references or actual success is not only for me, as you pointed out it doesn't make that much sense. It is actually a question directed at him and I honestly think he should apply some critical thought, take a step back and look at what he is doing and saying. Asking him to compare his words, writings and theories to actual outcome and hard facts should provide one way of taking a shot at that. And regarding this specific post, it is very clear to me he deserve all the flak because he seriously needs to reflect on his attitude and how he deals with projects and sharing responsibilities.

But I doubt he will take that step back and honestly reflect and instead go all nuts about how the 99% of lazy people are just trying to hold him back.

Maybe it is just me, I generally don't feel too crazy about the whole "blogosphere" so drenched and drowning in exactly this sensationalist lower-than-mediocrity and low-value noise-floor postings, so maybe I am biased.

To give you the other extreme: I cannot help but shake my head at (a lot of) things that PG has written and while I might disagree with the ideas, I can see and understand that they have obviously provided him with at least the right state of mind (paired with lots of luck) to accomplish something. And he can and does share experiences and lessons learned, not just personal theories and road maps like 1. Collect underpants. 2. ... 3. success!

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#225

WTF is all that stuff about S3 doing in the middle there? Setting up S3 takes about 10 seconds. Hardly worth invoking Hannibal. Sebastian: please seek professional help before you hurt yourself or someone else.

  Sebastian: please seek professional help before you hurt yourself or someone else.
Yep, I agree. Sebastian sounds like he drives himself too hard and has variously 'lost it', 'gone mad', 'gone off the deep end' or is in the early stages of a massive nervous breakdown.

Not too many people would put up with even a fraction of his bile in real life, so Sebastian may be very very lonely or surrounded by other mal-adjusted people.

So yes, Sebastian if you're reading this, please seek counseling ASAP, the world is not how you imagine it and you are in dire risk of going mad.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#226
post #197

"Dear Sebastian, we quit, piss off. Best, Sam, Lee, and Jon." Seriously, this is just ridiculous. Is there anyone here that would actually put up with this ridiculous public shaming at all, let alone from a CEO that's off in Asia staying up "20 hours" to print flyers for one of his other companies, while he bitches that you're not reneging on your teaching commitments (which I would presume he knew about when he took…

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I wonder how many of the folks bashing this guy thought it was brilliant how Steve Jobs pressured his engineers by saying “If it would save a person’s life, could you shave 10 seconds off the start up time?”

How is that relevant in a discussion about publicly shaming people working for you.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#227
post #77

Telling someone not to go to their university classes so that they can crunch on your $generic_web_app should be a jailable offense.

To say that is to miss the point completely.

He's not telling someone not to go to their classes, he's illustrating the sort of behaviour change necessary between "I tried" and "I did it".

He doesn't "want a cookie" for working 20 hours on a Sunday night, he's illustrating the attitude shift between "I tried" and "I said I'd do it, so I did it".

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have to pay people 10X just to put up with you, maybe it would be more cost effective to hire a different CEO. You could pay the CEO 2X, the engineer 1X, and that would save you 7X!

You don't like compensating people well? It's my goal. It's not always possible, but I'd like everyone working with me to be paid extremely well, have great resources, and produce rates of work that only happen in a culture of inspired well-equipped well-trained autonomy. I want top paid people, comprehensive benefits, complete healthcare, and serious investments in quality training. Howard Schultz's autobiography "P…

If you're overpaying people for their level of talent, that actually is a problem.

Firstly you're wasting money for no extra value return. And it will leave you with the reputation of "that guy who pays stupid amounts of money" rather than "that guy who hires the best".

Secondly it gives you the expectation of "I am paying them loads more, so they should have more devotion to the project". In reality this doesn't always work out - better to get them enthused in the project and offer rewards in the context of the success of the project (this is why big companies don't pay higher and higher rates to get the best talent - but instead use bonuses and other incentives).

Thirdly it gets the business into the culture of overpaying; I've seen several companies do this, and at some point in the future you will run into the point where it is not possible to keep paying that rate. Reducing a super-high salary to baseline is de-motivating - you'll get employees just losing engagement and thinking "hey, I could just get a 'normal' job". Empirically; I've seen a number of companies fail purely through this factor.

I want top paid people, comprehensive benefits, complete healthcare, and serious investments in quality training.

This, however, is a good way to approach it. Pay the standard levels of salary and shift the rest of the money into value for the employee. If they are getting a couple of weeks training and conference attendance, new equipment, top notch business support etc. from you then they will be much more inclined to stick around.

It is a much more effective way to buy loyalty/support.

Re: If you want to get rich, stop being a fucking joker

#229
post #32
post #24

I can identify with what sebastian is experiencing here. Its easy to work with friends, or be friendly with your employees. Its easy for things to get casual. Its easy for people to start running everything by you. Its VERY easy for the sense of urgency to just go away. Its very hard to get people highly motivated about time. It's easy to kill an entire day with BS, and let things just stretch out. Especially when yo…

Why does there have to be a sense of urgency? I don't think we are meant to have stressful lives.

If you read Sebastian's blog, he wants to have the power to change the world, essentially, when the world needs changing. He believes his path is the most pragmatic way to do so. I think I agree.
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