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Meatless meat is nothing new

economist.com

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Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#101

Post by tcfhgj »

kcplate wrote: post #97
tcfhgj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive People post lots of BS when they have time > That is none of your business. It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1082564304/billions-of-people...

Still, the authors of the report make clear, humans are not powerless. Repairing damaged ecosystems and reducing greenhouse gas emissions dramatically and immediately would spare billions of people from illness, poverty, displacement and death.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#102

Post by kcplate »

tcfhgj wrote: post #101
kcplate wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1082564304/billions-of-people... Still, the authors of the report make clear, humans are not powerless. Repairing damaged ecosystems and reducing greenhouse gas emissions dramatically and immediately would spare billions of people from illness, poverty, displacement and death.

Sorry…I don’t buy into the “if everyone would just do this…the earth will be a utopia” fantasies.

If everyone suddenly became vegan overnight, solved every climate issue, eliminated (fill in whatever other blank you think is important enough to foist your morality on the rest of us)…there would still be billions of people suffering from illness, poverty, displacement, and death. Those four things are not because of meat eating, fossil fuels, or (fill in the blank), its because it is human nature and dumb luck for some to have success and others to not have success. There is no such thing as equity when 7B people are competing for limited resources.

We are not masters of our domain, we are semi-successful species that over the lifespan of this earth are going to last about as long as the stink from a gnat fart in a hurricane.

And during that tiny amount of time that I occupy that gnat fart, I’m going to eat meat and enjoy every bite.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#103

Post by tcfhgj »

kcplate wrote: post #102
tcfhgj wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/28/1082564304/billions-of-people... Still, the authors of the report make clear, humans are not powerless. Repairing damaged ecosystems and reducing greenhouse gas emissions dramatically and immediately would spare billions of people from illness, poverty, displacement and death.

Sorry…I don’t buy into the “if everyone would just do this…the earth will be a utopia” fantasies. If everyone suddenly became vegan overnight, solved every climate issue, eliminated (fill in whatever other blank you think is important enough to foist your morality on the rest of us)…there would still be billions of people suffering from illness, poverty, displacement, and death. Those four things are not because of m…

Well less suffering at least.

But it doesn't happen because of people like you

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#104

Post by ekianjo »

kcplate wrote: post #85
ekianjo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats certainly a false claim. no supermarket would be in business if they were throwing everything away.

Not necessarily, supermarkets have a built in expectation of some loss to spoilage already. A lot of those fake meat products have a pretty long shelf life since they are highly processed/frozen products and tend to be marketed in a very small footprint within the store. They are also priced to counter any spoilage expectation. So low stock requirements, small footprint, and consumer expectation that it’s an expensiv…

> expectation of some loss to spoilage already.

some is the key word here. You can bet that anyone who's managing a supermarket is optimizing to reduce this kind of loss.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#105

Post by wortelefant »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #69
wortelefant wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "meat" in "meatless meat" describes a texture and taste profile, not an ingredient. It is easier to communicate than, say, "chewy but soft, fibrous proteins which taste is usually determined by umami and maillard reaction flavors". There is a large community around new recipes for this taste profile, e.g. https://seitansociety.com/ . compared to the logistics (animal farming and slaughter pipelines), artificial i…

Comparing the best-grown plant protein with the worst-grown animal protein is a bit disingenuous. I can easily source you an animal carcasse that was 100% pasture-grown and pasture-fed where I know everyone involved in its supply chain, from insemination to distribution. Moreover, that same animal will have been net-positive to its ecossystem through foraging etc etc. It won't be cheap, but health-positive and planet…

this hypothetical best case is an exception to the reality of factory farming and animal "products" included in most dishes ("1% milk powder"). And in even then it would still include animal suffering. For those not too set on their habits, considering the arguments in https://veganspeak.info/ (e.g. #29) might be inspiring.

It is a personal decision in the end, our society allows for mass-producing and killing living beings despite better alternatives. As with other personal choices that are harmful and arbitraty, this is not something I see as worthy of further appreciation, or beneficial for further discussion.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#106

Post by kcplate »

tcfhgj wrote: post #103
kcplate wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry…I don’t buy into the “if everyone would just do this…the earth will be a utopia” fantasies. If everyone suddenly became vegan overnight, solved every climate issue, eliminated (fill in whatever other blank you think is important enough to foist your morality on the rest of us)…there would still be billions of people suffering from illness, poverty, displacement, and death. Those four things are not because of m…

Well less suffering at least. But it doesn't happen because of people like you

Yes, yes…us meat eaters are at the root of all the worlds problems. Funny how the human race managed to achieve any success at all considering our penchant for consuming animals throughout our entire existence.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#107

Post by kcplate »

ekianjo wrote: post #104
kcplate wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily, supermarkets have a built in expectation of some loss to spoilage already. A lot of those fake meat products have a pretty long shelf life since they are highly processed/frozen products and tend to be marketed in a very small footprint within the store. They are also priced to counter any spoilage expectation. So low stock requirements, small footprint, and consumer expectation that it’s an expensiv…

> expectation of some loss to spoilage already. some is the key word here. You can bet that anyone who's managing a supermarket is optimizing to reduce this kind of loss.

Sure…and also incorporating what they can’t optimize into the price for the item.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#108

Post by tcfhgj »

kcplate wrote: post #106
tcfhgj wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well less suffering at least. But it doesn't happen because of people like you

Yes, yes…us meat eaters are at the root of all the worlds problems. Funny how the human race managed to achieve any success at all considering our penchant for consuming animals throughout our entire existence.

Straw man

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#109

Post by kcplate »

tcfhgj wrote: post #108
kcplate wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes…us meat eaters are at the root of all the worlds problems. Funny how the human race managed to achieve any success at all considering our penchant for consuming animals throughout our entire existence.

Straw man

Actually it was sarcasm, and obvious sarcasm at that.
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