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Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

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Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#121
post #23
post #8

Web development as practiced by the majority of the industry is truly insane and depressing. No one has any idea what they are doing. Here's what I'm aiming to do: learn systems programming on the side, accumulate enough savings to live off of for nearly a year, then go independent and continue learning systems programming "as I go". Build software products on my own and start selling them.

Why not leverage what you know and build web-based products/services?

> Why not leverage what you know and build web-based products/services?

Because it's really difficult.

I find I can keep a big-picture, this is what the customer wants mindset, or I can have a detail-oriented this is the code that I want to improve mindset, but having both and/or switching between them is amazingly difficult. As I write the code I lose sight of what 'normal' people (non-programmers) want. I don't even know how to pitch to their level any more, or what isn't obvious to people who haven't spent 20+ years using and thinking about computers every day.

tl;dr: programming changes the way I think in a way that's unhelpful to build a product.

Next there's promotion and marketing... which is another skillset that depending how hard you want to push the product may/may not sit well with your ethics.

Thirdly and this is a personal one, I have an ADD brain and staying focused on one idea long enough to take it to market is very difficult. I have a list of ideas I dreamed up and started work on and never finished that someone else later launched successfully. As does everyone I suspect (execution >> ideas) but it's a neverending pattern (as I look at the 30+ OS projects on the go)

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#123

Move in to management. The reason tech sucks is mainly due to non technical managers who think writing code is the same as laying bricks, constantly breathing on developer necks and nagging about progress. The world needs more tech experienced managers to replace the supervisor types that barely understand the words they use.

Ha, much much easier said than done. Outside of big american corporates, getting a place in management is a no go 99.9% of the time.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#124
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a lot of people with technology taste, the web is offensive. Not to say that interfacing with say ugly Windows APIs is that much better, but at least you have way more control over the machine and your program, so (in systems programming) interfacing with ugly abstraction is only a minor part of your experience.

The weird thing is the browser is amazing - it's a great 3D rendering, video and playing, video conferencing, UI displaying and animating, vector and raster graphics drawing etc. thing. And probably I barely scratched the surface with my list. It does all of these things either as good as the best native apps or at least quite competently. And it's all portable. No wonder Electron has eaten the native app scene. But…

Browser is not great for 3D rendering, unless you mean 3D rendering like it's still 2005 (performance-wise). The browser is not able to handle any modern AAA games for example.

Also, the browser does not have an out-of-the box set of standard UI widgets, which makes every browser-based (Electron) app redefine them in its unique way.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#125

First, you need to take a big break, a couple of months at least. The less computing-related activities the better. The summer hasn't ended yet, do some outdoorsy stuff with other people. Depending on your situation of course, it may not be possible. Then just radically cut back on work and try to spend more time with your loved ones. Second, you need to get your love for technology back. It is still there, but it ma…

> One option is to go into management (no need to scoff at it, it is hard, offers plenty of opportunity for growth and is exactly the area where older folks can shine

Many many people say this but I think mid/low level managers are also usually young and I don't see the huge value of being old if the tech keeps changing. If anything it might be a bit easier to stay in shape technology wise if you're a developer, not a manager. This might be less of a problem if you go to high level management (director, CTO etc) but that career path is not trivial at all.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#126

I felt the same way as you did in my Corporate SAP gig - writing the same type of report programs day in and day out - in hindsight it was soul sucking really. SAP in the mean time did their third attempt at the cloud (BTP/Steampunk) and it seemed like the same old shit I was working on the classic ECC 6.0 buried in more layers of shit but now running in the "cloud". Covid then came along and I got laid off which pro…

This is scary. I'm thinking about joining a corporate just to reduce the insane pressure peaks I experience now in my startup. I really don't wanna find out being in a corporate will make my mental wellbeing even worse :( We'll see...

It really all depends what the problem domain is - message routing to banks or tracking pallets in warehouses and reporting how many ended at the right place at the right time.

The world needs their burger flippers.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#127
post #44

There are a lot of companies that don't primarily do web development, maybe look into that if you know or want to learn Java, C++? Telecom, automotive, finance, games, medicine, industry. These companies need a lot of developers and they're typically much nicer to work at. Better paid, much less stress.

How's the C++ career path? I'm considering it. Always liked C and more low level stuff. I'm just wondering if C++ will be worth the investment 10 years from now or are languages like Go/Rust killing it. I want something stable where my experience will compound nicely over the years.

I personally can't see a career in a particular programming language. There are so many programing languages out there. Wouldn't it be better to get expert like knowledge in some specific area. For example becoming an expert in distributed systems for the automotive industry. You would then participate in design and implementation of a distributed system. I think this would narrow down the needed knowledge, however life long learning is still needed.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#128
I started moving away from code-only positions once I reached 10 years in the industry - 2015.

Now, I am 37 transitioned and while still write A LOT of code ( mostly back-end, high performance APIs, DB stuff ), review a lot of code, but bareley touch front-end work. I grok it, can make the changes, but I am too old for front-end work.

At my role ( 1 level away from C-Level executives) it's not expected to code at all - just power point, diagrams and general corporate lingo, but I can't let myself down that path.

So, my suggestion - start transioning ASAP from just coding - move to managing people who code, then to managing people who manage other people who manage the people that code.

More money, more recognition - less stress in general.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#129
Just on the vacancies and 300+ applicants:

Writing a good and "personalized" cover letter gets me a really decent interview rate I think.

I'd be up to read yours and make suggestions. Just let me know here.

My usual receipt:

- start with a custom paragraph. Why are you a match and why do you like this company.

- 1-2 copy+paste paragraphs about relevant skills (at most a buzzword or two added)

- ending with a curious question to discuss in the possible interview that shows you thinking along and grasped their situation (or at least made the effort). This might be more important for the product roles I aim at though :).

.

For preparation (I do this quickly for the letter, a bit more if I get an interview):

- save the job ad (it's useful for interview prep and might get taken down)

- read any blog that hints at upcoming projects you might be hired for

- try to find out their tech stack, highlight if you have relevant experience (https://www.wappalyzer.com/ makes it easy)

With all that: brace yourself for rejections. It's still a numbers game (and you'll get better with every interview you get). If you happen to find something you can actually get behind it also elevates your chances. People feel that.

Re: Ask HN: Depressed, need to leave web development, what can I do?

#130

I started moving away from code-only positions once I reached 10 years in the industry - 2015. Now, I am 37 transitioned and while still write A LOT of code ( mostly back-end, high performance APIs, DB stuff ), review a lot of code, but bareley touch front-end work. I grok it, can make the changes, but I am too old for front-end work. At my role ( 1 level away from C-Level executives) it's not expected to code at all…

>So, my suggestion - start transioning ASAP from just coding - move to managing people who code, then to managing people who manage other people who manage the people that code.

But how? In my woods, that's nearly impossible unless your boss has that planned for you and has the blessings of his bosses. They're the positions with the most gatekeeping therefore the nost difficult to get.

And less stress is not always guaranteed since you'll be taking shit from above and from below now.

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