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Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

reuters.com

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Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#71

Post by TulliusCicero »

hendlcb wrote: post #65
thematrixturtle wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Countryism" is a thing in Europe as well, eg Ubisoft is well known for favoring French people in its leadership roles. And in the US many people from the South learn to disguise their accents to avoid prejudice from snooty West or East Coasters.

> people from the south Is such a useless broadbrush; it exists only as a dogwhistle for “reverse-discrimination” (which isn’t a thing; that’s just discrimination). Make no mistake the southern drawl cannot be masked. *Everyone knows*. Words and actions give one away more than the drawl.

Nah, it can definitely be masked. I doubt many people pick up that Stephen Colbert is from South Carolina.

I had a coworker whose native accent was a southern one, out of Missouri, but he'd disguised it very effectively, if you met him you'd assume just another California techie.

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#72

Post by arise »

29athrowaway wrote: post #27
margalabargala wrote: post #19

I see the claim made that caste-ism doesn't fall under existing discrimination laws, but I don't really see how it's actually any different from run-of-the-mill racism. Caste is familially inherited. So a person is being judged based upon their ancestry. The only difference between "that group of families is inherently inferior" and "that race is inherently inferior" seems to be how broadly/narrowly you define "race"…

The law should simply say: do you observe any beliefs that make you treat a group of people in a favorable or unfavorable way, based on criteria other than academic or professional qualifications? If so, you should declare your conflict of interest at the beginning of each meeting and document and be excluded from professional decisions involving hiring, firing, promotions, etc. Ideally, this should also apply to inv…

The person who claims they have no such beliefs is lying.

When you remove the human element (including intuition, tacit knowledge, reading of social-behavioral cues, and subjective assessments of temperament and character), you're going to get absurdities that cost society way more than any conceivable benefit.

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#73

Post by rg111 »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #54
margalabargala wrote: post #19

I see the claim made that caste-ism doesn't fall under existing discrimination laws, but I don't really see how it's actually any different from run-of-the-mill racism. Caste is familially inherited. So a person is being judged based upon their ancestry. The only difference between "that group of families is inherently inferior" and "that race is inherently inferior" seems to be how broadly/narrowly you define "race"…

The interesting thing about caste is that it's basically invisible: unlike race, you can't tell somebody's caste by looking at them. (There is some correlation to skin color, but there are also plenty of eg Tamil Brahmins who are very dark-skinned.) Which is why caste-conscious Indians meeting new people go through an elaborate dance asking about family name, where they're from, if they're vegetarian etc to figure ou…

Indian friend told me that you can know the caste by their last names. And this is true for most last names.

Isn't that true?

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#74

Post by chupchap »

rg111 wrote: post #73
thematrixturtle wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing about caste is that it's basically invisible: unlike race, you can't tell somebody's caste by looking at them. (There is some correlation to skin color, but there are also plenty of eg Tamil Brahmins who are very dark-skinned.) Which is why caste-conscious Indians meeting new people go through an elaborate dance asking about family name, where they're from, if they're vegetarian etc to figure ou…

Indian friend told me that you can know the caste by their last names. And this is true for most last names. Isn't that true?

True if you know all the caste names, but a lot of caste names in the south don't fit into the four buckets used in the north. Which makes for a very interesting discussion.

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#75

Post by thewileyone »

Thorrez wrote: post #61
raincom wrote: post #31

There are so many issues conflated around 'caste' and Indians. Let me unravel a bit using my experiences in the corporate world and anecdotes from friends. 1. Whoever first came to USA on H1-B (just before Y2K) are in high positions at many companies. They are VPs, not because they have good managerial skills, not because they have great competence in solving technical problems. Just they came early, these folks got…

>They are VPs, not because they have good managerial skills, not because they have great competence in solving technical problems. Just they came early, these folks got green cards so fast, and they got Exec MBA from weekend/night schools. This seems kind of weird to me. Regardless of how fast they get a green card, they're going to face competition existing Americans. I don't think speed of green card would matter m…

They are willing to work for less salary. There was no large shortage of Americans, just Americans willing to work for less.

After they've come in as managers or VPs, they get to control who the company hires. That's when the casteism comes into play cause they'd only hire from their own caste or village. I've seen whole teams hired, not in the US, where everyone was from the same village and related to each other. Of course this was only known after one of them accidentally let it slip out.

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#76

Post by chupchap »

mjh2539 wrote: post #5

When you find a southeast Asian person talking about "neighborhood" or "neighbors", e.g. "he's from my neighborhood", "they're from a neighborhood over", understand that these are nearly always thinly veiled references to caste (that, or they merely serve as proxies to talk about caste in a socially acceptable manner). You will almost never, ever, hear your everyday person talk about caste.

I use it to refer to folks from my city when I'm out of India, irrespective of religion or caste. Have you heard this reference made often?

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#77

Post by bergenty »

khazhoux wrote: post #69

As a white male who's lived in the US most of his life, I confess that I read these articles about caste-based racism and comments with a measure of disbelief, because to me it is entirely invisible. Mind you, I first learned about India's discriminatory caste system in high school, so I've been aware of it and I know it's real, but it exists in an alternate dimension I simply can't see. I've never noticed people ask…

To be honest, as an Indian origin person I’ve never seen or heard any of this either and I’ve been in tech for around 15 years.

Re: Caste in California: Tech giants confront ancient Indian hierarchy

#80

Post by kumarvvr »

amzn-sdethrow wrote: post #70

This is a weird one. I am sure it happens in certain pockets, but I can't say that I have ever heard or directly experienced any form of casteism in my 16 years in North America. Having said that, my background is Tamil brahmin but I am not religious, don't go to temples, and don't wear a poonal (identifying sacred thread). As naive as it may sound, I hope my 6 year old son never hears the word caste in his life.

There is nothing wrong in identifying with a caste, or practising customs related to the caste.

It is thinking only my caste is good or having prejudiced ideas that is wrong.

Caste identity is essential to maintain tribal relations and networks (every part of the world has this and practices this), but feelings of caste superiority are to be eradicated.

I feel pity for your son because instead of giving him a choice and making him understand what is good and bad, you are preventing him from hearing about it at all, which, in my view, is even worse and will be a shock to him when he encounters situations he cannot handle because of your ignorance.

You may keep him away from caste, but the society will not.

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