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Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

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Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#161
post #143
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to choose one. With automation you can have a small, highly paid, highly skilled workforce do the work of a much larger, low skill, low paid workforce and actually produce higher quality products at a lower price.

And what about the highly skilled lower paid workforce also using automation in China? And with fewer safety requirements the machines are cheaper too.

Automation is so productive that the difference in wages is insignificant so who cares.

The problem with automation is it is very hard to make it, but once it is made you can use it cheap. So you need to make many parts before it is worth it. 30 years ago it's was cheaper to pay a skilled lathe operator to turn a drawing into a single part, but if you needed 1000 it was worth writing CNC code to automate it. Today the state of CAM is such that many drawings can be turned into parts CNC directly, but assembly of those parts into a tool is often still manual unless they sell a lot of parts. (I don't know what Milwaukee is doing, but I expect cordless drills are assembled automatically, but their cordless bandsaw which is much less in demand is manual)

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

problem is in theory it's "the same quality" but with the amount of shitty chinesium i seen i'm not convinced they're capable of producing anything more than a disposable.

There are countless quality products produced in China alongside the cheap ones; apparently you're just no good at identifying one.

More that they don't ship that here as most who care about quality were slow to move manufacturing overseas.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#163
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could just ban importing of foreign tools. Maybe a tariff that ratchets up over time to give industry time and incentive to transition.

How long do you think it would take for automation to get to 75%+ of the way there in terms of price parity? It's mostly just a big initial capital investment it seems.

Depends on the tool. Automation is cheaper than manual work when you make a lot of something, and so can spread the cost of automation of all the results. Some things are easier to automate than others, and automation tech is advancing all the time.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#164
post #87
post #44

This is good news, but Milwaukee is primarily a power tool company. Bringing power tool manufacturing back to the USA would be much bigger news. Project Farm is a YouTube channel that reviews tools. I've noticed that most of the made-in-USA products are relatively simple - hand tools, drill bits, adhesives, lubricants, and so on. Any complex assembly that includes electronics is almost invariably made in Asia. It fee…

Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act)

Paying another country to do something is a transfer of value and power (money). It creates a relationship of dependence. You become dependent on them for labor. Dependence is a base form of power. An entities power over you is proportional to their replace-ability.

The individual business decision is sound, but the collective business decision is catastrophic. Not only does it create an economies of scale for adversaries instead of ourselves, but it gives them a lever to press to cause us pain. There is a national security disaster directly caused by the idea that paying Americans more is not a sound decision. Another country now has a say in what can be in our movies, and what our politicians, business persons, and celebrities can do or say. Add to this ambition, beligerance, and the prospect of war (a clear destroyer of value), and the picture gets even worse.

The answer is not handing out wads of cash to businesses like Intel that have failed to be productive by choosing business first (extract all the money possible) rather than values first (make the best products possible) practices, but to unburden our businesses with costs like healthcare and housing costs.

The minimum wage wouldn't have to be so high if there was cheap housing, good public transportation, abundant cheap healthy food, low debt policies, and government run health care. If you reduce the cost of living, you de facto reduce the cost of labor.

Housing policy that ensures limited supply and therefore high rents transfers wealth from laborers to owners, which is a transfer of money from businesses to landlords because the cost of rent is passed on to businesses in the form of wages.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#165
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act)

Or we could just ban importing of foreign tools. Maybe a tariff that ratchets up over time to give industry time and incentive to transition.

I’m mostly pro capitalism / trade but would support moves like this for critical manufacturing and other production important for stability. Wars happen, see eg concerns raised around Europe and heating for this coming winter.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#166
post #9

I don't think this will make much of a difference aside from the branding advantage. The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but rather of its design. All the decisions made during that process and all the cost / performance considerations made are what determine the ultimate outcome. It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tool…

>So bringing it back here without increasing the cost to the consumer means altering the design to make it cheaper to build, or banking on supply chain efficiencies to make it worthwhile. As much as I like some Klein tools that are made in the USA, they have a few that are cheaper-quality when compared to their cheaper-price Chinese alternatives. If I can’t find USA, I’ll at least look to Taiwan, having spent time th…

When I was a kid Taiwan was the place they made junk tools that broke. 40 some years later they have figured out quality. I expect China to figure it out, and in some places they have.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#167
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A handful of DeWalt power tools are "assembled from global materials" in USA, https://www.allamericanmade.com/where-are-dewalt-tools-made/ Jackson, TN Air compressors Hempstead, MD Drill and saw components Charlotte, NC Cordless drills, screwdrivers Greenfield, IN Grinder, recip saws, hammer drills

DeWalt and Milwuakee are owned by the same parent company.

You've got them mixed up. DeWalt is Stanley Black & Decker, which also makes modern, non-Sears Craftsman tools, along with a bunch of others--Bostitch nailers, Irwin, whatever's left of the Porter-Cable line, and upscale stuff like MAC (uses DeWalt batteries, as it happens) or Proto.

Milwaukee is TTI, which owns Home Depot's exclusive Ryobi and Ridgid brands, along with Empire (measuring devices), Hart (Ryobi but for Wal-Mart), and AEG (Ridgid but for Europe).

The other "big" one worth mentioning is Chervon, who own Flex, Skil (aside: their 12V stuff is surprisingly good!), and make Lowe's Kobalt tools.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#168
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A handful of DeWalt power tools are "assembled from global materials" in USA, https://www.allamericanmade.com/where-are-dewalt-tools-made/ Jackson, TN Air compressors Hempstead, MD Drill and saw components Charlotte, NC Cordless drills, screwdrivers Greenfield, IN Grinder, recip saws, hammer drills

Makita too, in Buford, GA. Not sure which tools, other than some corded planers.

I try not to be too much of a fan of tools, as for corded stuff I mostly buy what's cheap, but the DeWalt DW735 planer is a tool that really makes me happy. I've had to take it apart to put in an upgraded cutting head and the process of doing so was a really pleasurable education in how mechanical tools (which I don't know much about) actually work.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#169
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A handful of DeWalt power tools are "assembled from global materials" in USA, https://www.allamericanmade.com/where-are-dewalt-tools-made/ Jackson, TN Air compressors Hempstead, MD Drill and saw components Charlotte, NC Cordless drills, screwdrivers Greenfield, IN Grinder, recip saws, hammer drills

Same for STIHL: > A majority of STIHL products sold in America are made in America of U.S. and foreign materials. -- https://www.stihlusa.com/stihl-made-in-america/

They're so "made in america" that you have to put qualifiers on that statement ...

not buying it, sorry.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#170

I noticed at the most recent Milwaukee power tools event that they’re really going all in on specialist tools. This is a strong signal that they’re going to continue to cream the competition because irrational or not, people end up preferring a single battery platform, it’s not guaranteed they’ll stick to one brand for future power tool purchases but it’s extremely sticky. The Milwaukee battery power tool ecosystem s…

Dewalt seems to have at least as good a catalog of battery powered stuff. Things change all the time, a few years ago I settled on dewalt because I needed a chainsaw and Milwaukee didn't have one: now they do, but too late as i'm invested in dewalt batteries.
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