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Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

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Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a start. Next step is automation-heavy U.S. production of specific components.

It's more like the endgame. 1. Western companies moves production of components to China. 2. Chinese companies becomes good enough to produce their own products. 3. Western companies starts rebranding Chinese products. 4. Chinese companies buy western companies. 5. Chinese companies open factories in western countries. Manufacturing isn't industry in itself and the growth of industry is orders of magnitude more in Ch…

> Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary

Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations?

> increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality.

Which non-Western countries are competing on creativity?

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#132
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t have to choose one. With automation you can have a small, highly paid, highly skilled workforce do the work of a much larger, low skill, low paid workforce and actually produce higher quality products at a lower price.

So you’re picking low prices and an UNpaid workforce - cutting a workforce by 90% but doubling pay for the remaining 10% doesn’t improve a local or domestic economy.

There's plenty of work to go around: workers today are no less busy but far more productive than they were before any automation. It's just that instead of a bunch of farmers and a handful of blacksmiths we've found more things to do and have careers that span the gamut from yoga instructors to robot technicians.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#133
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like perfectly efficient capitalism. Is it really not this way in other countries?

You negotiate for one grade of steel, initial runs are that grade, but over time some manufacturers will start substituting a cheaper grade and hope you don't notice ("quality fade"). In most countries employees would see that as unethical, and companies would risk whistleblowing and fraud suits if they went ahead anyway.

Yep, there's a great book "poorly made in china" [0], where they describe the immaculate production facilities, hygene standards, etc... and after a short time, stuff like this:

> Bernie was disturbed by the finger-in-bottle exchange, when I told him about it. “I hope they are washing their hands, at least,” he said. Since the bathrooms had no soap, I told him that it was not likely.

> I explained to Sister how this could be a problem. She told me that she understood and would address the situation.

> “I will tell the workers not to put their fingers in the bottles when you are at the factory,” she said.

....

> The hair gel that we produced at the factory was green. One day, I noticed that the worker who filled the gel bottles had a skin condition. His hands were covered with the slick formula, and beneath the green, shimmery layer, I could see that the skin on his hands was peeling. Small, raw patches of flesh were exposed, and you didn’t have to be a dermatologist to see that his skin was infected.

> “We should probably do something about this one,” I said to Sister, trying to sound calm, while in my head alarm bells were ringing.

> Sister did not see the point. “Why?” she asked.

> “It might be a health issue?”

> “But the worker has done nothing wrong. It’s just an allergic reaction.”

> Trying to press the matter, I suggested that the worker might contaminate the product.

> Sister twisted around the argument. “How can he harm the product when it was the product that caused him the harm?”

etc.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/5116296

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professionally engineered products have their steel specified by physical attributes, not country of origin. If it meets the spec, and passes QA, it meets the spec. That being said, not every plant makes every type of steel. Higher end steels are the types of steels that western manufacturers can compete on, so it is often what they specialize in.

Some countries declare steel to have certain properties and they do not have those properties. This is a certifiable fact.

> Some countries declare steel to have certain properties and they do not have those properties. This is a certifiable fact.

In general I'd say that some companies do this.

I did a quick search and found a few well-published incidents:

Kobe Steel (Japan)[1]

Japan Steel Works (Japan) - although this was faked inspection on manufactured components not raw steel[2]

Ossen Innovation Materials (China)[3]

Unsubstantiated reports of issues with companies from China, Germany, Italy and the US[4]

Le Creusot (France). Fake materials used in nuclear reactors[5]

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-kobe-steel-scandal-ceo-id...

[2] https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14617459

[3] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/307694/steel-supplier-ha...

[4] https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=304464

[5] https://www.steelavailable.com/en/counterfeit-steel-big-worr...

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like the endgame. 1. Western companies moves production of components to China. 2. Chinese companies becomes good enough to produce their own products. 3. Western companies starts rebranding Chinese products. 4. Chinese companies buy western companies. 5. Chinese companies open factories in western countries. Manufacturing isn't industry in itself and the growth of industry is orders of magnitude more in Ch…

> Western countries don't really have the infrastructure, housing or education necessary Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations? > increasingly not alternative ways of competing either like creativity, influence or equality. Which non-Western countries are competing on creativity?

>Why do non-Western elites send their kids to Western countries for university educations?

Elites. We have the best education for elites. Not for everyone, which is a large part of the problem.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#136
post #9

I don't think this will make much of a difference aside from the branding advantage. The quality of a mass-produced product like a consumer hand tool isn't a function of the country in which it is made but rather of its design. All the decisions made during that process and all the cost / performance considerations made are what determine the ultimate outcome. It's common to blame Chinese manufacturing for cheap tool…

Who actually wanted / needed cheap tools ? Cheap tools were pushed on the majority of people.

People who need to DIY something but might only need to use the tool a few times. Or people who bought decent brand for key tools and then went budget to add a couple of extra pieces they couldn't otherwise justify.

How are cheaper tools pushed on people? There's a broad range at the hardware store and generally staff will encourage you to purchase premium brands.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#137
post #102
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low prices or well paid workforce...Choose one! This is a result of decades of regulations and labour laws. Paying Americans 10x more to make similar quality tools is a terrible business decision. This cannot be fixed without government incentives/handouts (eg. Chips Act)

Agreed. It's not always straightforward but I also feel there is a disconnect when on the one hand people say the answer to worker's poor pay is "Unions!" and then on the other hand they want cheap things and also say that people have a right to cheaper things because that improves quality of life through increased purchasing power... Well, that's true if you have a professional white collared job. If you're in the l…

Unions aren't about more wages. Unions are about checking owner/capitalist/CEO power. Why does the CEO get paid 10-100x more than the lowest paid worker despite working the same number of hours a day? That's the question unions aim to solve.

This puzzle revolves around power. Power is the ability to execute force or inflict pleasure or pain. A CEO is clearly capable of painful force against their unskilled labor. A CEO can make it so someone has a harder time housing themselves, getting medical care, or feeding their children. But what power does unskilled labor have over their CEOs? Virtually none individually. So we see this reality reflected directly in wages. Unskilled labor gets paid the minimum because they have no power, and CEO's get incredible wages because they have the power to demand them.

This "agreement" is not mutual consent, but fundamentally exploitation. It's even more so exploitation when labor is sent to these poor countries.

Unions are the answer to the puzzle of "how does an unskilled laborer exercise power/prevent themselves from being exploited." Through collective action a union can cause the CEO pain and put a check on their otherwise unchecked power. In this way individuals are no longer powerless but have earned a seat at the negotiating table.

China did exactly this. They became exploited, nurtured dependence on the exploitation, and now use manufacturing's dependence on China as well as state level collective bargaining as a cudgul to execute their imperialist will on countries like Taiwan.

If you do not have the ability to commit great violence you are not peaceful, you are harmless. If you do not have the ability to execute power, you do not make agreements, you follow commands.

I personally don't understand how unions are not seen as American as the 2nd amendment. Unions are as important to preventing capitalist exploitation as guns are to preventing colonial/fascist exploitation.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely the case in med tech, devices and Pharma. Many manufacturers avoid China because you can set a spec but you can't trust the outgoing QA testing. You can do incoming QA testing, but then you are double testing and losing a lot of efficiencies when those things would be best done at the supplier

You do spot incoming QA testing. And if you find any issues, you test the whole shipment. And then you compare the results to the outgoing QA test results. And if any results can't be explained by failures relating to shipping, then you fire your supplier. You let them know ahead of time that this is the procedure you'll apply, and then they'll do proper QA testing.

In these industries it might take 5 years to switch suppliers. There are also specs that can't be tested at the finished good level, even destructively.

Re: Milwaukee Tool Raises the Bar with New USA Factory

#140

I am seeing the following trends: - supply chain is moving to US (ex. Korean conglomerates, TSMC, Japan) - cost of goods is rising as result of Made in US - increased number of articles justifying this for improvement in quality

Some German-manufactured goods have earned their price premiums with a track record of quality products.

but why is it then so many BMW have issues? I have to go to my Benz dealership quite frequently too. Toyota/Lexus - zero issues.
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