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Meatless meat is nothing new

economist.com

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Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#91
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. “A low fat diet including fruits, pasta, and cereals, supplemented with copious amounts of extraneous insulin.”

But even if we concede that the ADA is entirely untrustworthy, they are only one of many nutrition and dietetic institutions who have officially stated the same thing. That’s why it’s the general consensus, not just the theories of the ADA

The point is that it’s wrong, particularly for type 2 diabetics, and not just a little wrong, it’s dangerously wrong for type 2 diabetics to eat the way the organization that the medical establishment was relying on for providing sound diabetes advice was actually distributing dangerous advice. The general consensus for years relied on an assumption and confirmation bias driven by marketing rather than any actual science.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#92
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even have something like that installed. It's obvious what you are trying to do: Make other people seem worse than you are such that you still have your excuse for meat consumption. And for what? As if it would impact your life significantly to remove meat from the ingredients of meals I don't know where you live, but here you don't need to starve without meat even if you don't cook for yourself at all.

Well you are completely wrong. Meat consumption is a very crucial part of my life and I am not willing compromise on that. The decrease in quality of life is just not worth it for me.

I see that you aren't.

Too bad we all have to pay for peoples irrational life style choices whose quality of life seems to be determined by meat consumption.

Here, we have a butcher that went vegan years ago - and now creates vegan alternatives to offer in his shop

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#93
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even if we concede that the ADA is entirely untrustworthy, they are only one of many nutrition and dietetic institutions who have officially stated the same thing. That’s why it’s the general consensus, not just the theories of the ADA

The point is that it’s wrong, particularly for type 2 diabetics, and not just a little wrong, it’s dangerously wrong for type 2 diabetics to eat the way the organization that the medical establishment was relying on for providing sound diabetes advice was actually distributing dangerous advice. The general consensus for years relied on an assumption and confirmation bias driven by marketing rather than any actual sci…

The claim I made wasn’t about saying what everyone needs to eat, though, so your point doesn’t make sense in the context of the discussion. The point that I was making is that these dietetic institutions state that animal products aren’t necessary. Not that diabetics are required to eat things that risk their lives…

If you believe that diabetics cannot be vegan, then that’s a separate and equally untrue argument.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that it’s wrong, particularly for type 2 diabetics, and not just a little wrong, it’s dangerously wrong for type 2 diabetics to eat the way the organization that the medical establishment was relying on for providing sound diabetes advice was actually distributing dangerous advice. The general consensus for years relied on an assumption and confirmation bias driven by marketing rather than any actual sci…

The claim I made wasn’t about saying what everyone needs to eat, though, so your point doesn’t make sense in the context of the discussion. The point that I was making is that these dietetic institutions state that animal products aren’t necessary. Not that diabetics are required to eat things that risk their lives… If you believe that diabetics cannot be vegan, then that’s a separate and equally untrue argument.

> If you believe that diabetics cannot be vegan, then that’s a separate and equally untrue argument.

Where did I say that? I didn’t. I was referring specifically to the ADA incorrect suggestion for decades that high carbohydrate foods are ok and encouraged for type 2 diabetics. I did not make a meat vs non-meat absolutist statement. It was more a high carb vs low carb absolutist statement. If you are a vegan T2 diabetic who only eats avocados, cabbage, broccoli, and olives…good for you.

My comments were actually specific the commenter who expressed concern about relying on “general consensus” as an argument for reliability of dietary advice and used the ADA example. I backed them up and it’s completely appropriate to this little thread in the discussion.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#95
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you are completely wrong. Meat consumption is a very crucial part of my life and I am not willing compromise on that. The decrease in quality of life is just not worth it for me.

I see that you aren't. Too bad we all have to pay for peoples irrational life style choices whose quality of life seems to be determined by meat consumption. Here, we have a butcher that went vegan years ago - and now creates vegan alternatives to offer in his shop

First of all it is really arrogant of you to presume these are "irrational life style choices". Who are you to tell me what I should put inside my body, and what is best for me? I deliberated talking about my reasons, mostly health related, but then I decided against it because I do not want to hear from a stranger what actually works well for me as a diet, as if I am not the one living with my own body. That is none of your business. And for your information, I am also no Texas American on a cattle ranch eating beef steak for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Secondly the whole of consumerist culture is "irrational lifestyle choices". This stupid line in the sand drawn arbitrarily around meat consumption is just self serving bullshit. It is very convenient how others are the ones who have to do the sacrifice and others are always at fault, isn't it?

As I said already I bet my carbon footprint is still lower than yours.

I am in general fed up of close minded people like you. You cannot understand why other people live their life another way, so you decide they are stupid to do so, and you know better how they should instead live their life? Can you be any more arrogant than that?

If you were intellectually honest and really cared about environmental effects there could be many ways forward. For example as another poster has mentioned, not all meat has the same carbon footprint. And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive. Say goats/sheep in the highlands are more adding to the ecosystem than taking away. No veggies are going to be grown up there anyway. And in general I do agree with lowering meat consumption intake in cases were it is excessive.

But instead you went with the dogmatic bullshit approach typical of people who think they are doing something by being annoying pricks in the faces of other people.

The whole enviromentalist movement will always remain sidelined because you seek to force people to adopt your lifestyle, rather than trying to find common ground and make progress.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see that you aren't. Too bad we all have to pay for peoples irrational life style choices whose quality of life seems to be determined by meat consumption. Here, we have a butcher that went vegan years ago - and now creates vegan alternatives to offer in his shop

First of all it is really arrogant of you to presume these are "irrational life style choices". Who are you to tell me what I should put inside my body, and what is best for me? I deliberated talking about my reasons, mostly health related, but then I decided against it because I do not want to hear from a stranger what actually works well for me as a diet, as if I am not the one living with my own body. That is none…

> And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive

People post lots of BS when they have time

> That is none of your business.

It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all it is really arrogant of you to presume these are "irrational life style choices". Who are you to tell me what I should put inside my body, and what is best for me? I deliberated talking about my reasons, mostly health related, but then I decided against it because I do not want to hear from a stranger what actually works well for me as a diet, as if I am not the one living with my own body. That is none…

> And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive People post lots of BS when they have time > That is none of your business. It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death

Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#98
post #97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive People post lots of BS when they have time > That is none of your business. It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

All ideology ends up like this, Zizek is right.

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#99
post #97
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And there are ways of farming/ranching that might even be carbon positive People post lots of BS when they have time > That is none of your business. It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

Welcome to reality

Ignorance is a bliss

Re: Meatless meat is nothing new

#100
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is since meat consumption largely affects the life of other people, some by death Sheesh. Why is it that every damned belief system that demands some level of moral absolutism always ends the same way—advocating some form of totalitarianism to manage their intolerance.

All ideology ends up like this, Zizek is right.

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