Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#11

Post by PotatoEngineer » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 12:52 AM UTC

joshAg wrote: post #9

personally, i think that anyone caught infringing should pay a fine equal to the cheapest retail price (over say, the past year) of the thing infringed(like for like, if you pirated the hd version of a movie, you have to buy the blu ray or hd dvd version. if you took a cam'ed version, you have to buy a movie ticket), iff they do not already own it. yeah, there's a whole bunch of issues that would have to be ironed ou…

That would encourage piracy. If you pirate a movie right when it comes out, that's $20 or so, but after a year, it gets closer to $10. So: pirate it now, pay next year's price in the worst case!

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#12

Post by tzs » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 12:54 AM UTC

joshAg wrote: post #9

personally, i think that anyone caught infringing should pay a fine equal to the cheapest retail price (over say, the past year) of the thing infringed(like for like, if you pirated the hd version of a movie, you have to buy the blu ray or hd dvd version. if you took a cam'ed version, you have to buy a movie ticket), iff they do not already own it. yeah, there's a whole bunch of issues that would have to be ironed ou…

I must be misunderstanding your proposal, because on the face of it that seems to be so colossally ridiculous that I can't believe it is what you intended. Did you misstate your proposal?

There would be virtually no disincentive to infringement under that proposal. Why not just propose eliminating copyright?

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#13

Post by carbocation » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 12:57 AM UTC

PotatoEngineer wrote: post #5

pagekalisedown wrote: post #3

In other news, bank robbers say bank robberies should be punished by fines under $100.

The current laws allow huge fines per song . Download about $100 worth of music (~6 CDs), get hit with over $500,000 in fines. That's simply overkill. A fine of less than $100 (even on a per-song basis) would make the punishment fit the crime.

I thought it was up to $180,000 per violation (~$10 million, if taken to the extreme for 6 CDs)?

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#14

Post by masterzora » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 12:58 AM UTC

MaxGabriel wrote: post #4

pagekalisedown wrote: post #3

In other news, bank robbers say bank robberies should be punished by fines under $100.

First, it does indicate a problem with the copyright system when such a large number of people (+50%, per Free Culture) are 'felons' under US law and liable for hundreds of thousands in damages. Second, wouldn't it be reasonable for the bank robbers to request that they're not sentenced to death for robbing banks? Can't they argue the punishment doesn't match the crime?

First, it does indicate a problem with the copyright system when such a large number of people (+50%, per Free Culture) are 'felons' under US law and liable for hundreds of thousands in damages.

While I agree with your conclusions, the logic here is flawed. If everyone started shoplifting, for example, it wouldn't indicate a problem with the laws that people are now criminals.

(Sidenote: Only a small number of people are felons on account of copyright. Under US law, to be a felon you have to have been convicted of a felony.)

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#15

Post by joshAg » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:10 AM UTC

PotatoEngineer wrote: post #11

joshAg wrote: post #9

personally, i think that anyone caught infringing should pay a fine equal to the cheapest retail price (over say, the past year) of the thing infringed(like for like, if you pirated the hd version of a movie, you have to buy the blu ray or hd dvd version. if you took a cam'ed version, you have to buy a movie ticket), iff they do not already own it. yeah, there's a whole bunch of issues that would have to be ironed ou…

That would encourage piracy. If you pirate a movie right when it comes out, that's $20 or so, but after a year, it gets closer to $10. So: pirate it now, pay next year's price in the worst case!

no, past year based on the time of infringement, not time of conviction, so if you pirate it June 25, 2011, you pay the cheapest price between June 26th, 2010 and June 25th 2011.

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#16

Post by darth_static » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:14 AM UTC

pagekalisedown wrote: post #3

In other news, bank robbers say bank robberies should be punished by fines under $100.

The fines for pirating music are ridiculous. I remember reading somewhere that the fines for pirating Prince's entire discography are more than Prince has made from those albums. Where's the sense in that?

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#17

Post by ugh » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:23 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #2

Those darn social science majors and their worthless degrees. If only they would get real jobs! http://piracy.ssrc.org/the-copy-culture-survey-infringement-...

?

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#18

Post by joshAg » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:25 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #12

joshAg wrote: post #9

personally, i think that anyone caught infringing should pay a fine equal to the cheapest retail price (over say, the past year) of the thing infringed(like for like, if you pirated the hd version of a movie, you have to buy the blu ray or hd dvd version. if you took a cam'ed version, you have to buy a movie ticket), iff they do not already own it. yeah, there's a whole bunch of issues that would have to be ironed ou…

I must be misunderstanding your proposal, because on the face of it that seems to be so colossally ridiculous that I can't believe it is what you intended. Did you misstate your proposal? There would be virtually no disincentive to infringement under that proposal. Why not just propose eliminating copyright?

The disincentive is having to pay for the thing you pirated. Not to mention attorney fees if you decide to fight the charge.

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#19

Post by nextparadigms » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:28 AM UTC

masterzora wrote: post #14

MaxGabriel wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, it does indicate a problem with the copyright system when such a large number of people (+50%, per Free Culture) are 'felons' under US law and liable for hundreds of thousands in damages. Second, wouldn't it be reasonable for the bank robbers to request that they're not sentenced to death for robbing banks? Can't they argue the punishment doesn't match the crime?

First, it does indicate a problem with the copyright system when such a large number of people (+50%, per Free Culture) are 'felons' under US law and liable for hundreds of thousands in damages. While I agree with your conclusions, the logic here is flawed. If everyone started shoplifting, for example, it wouldn't indicate a problem with the laws that people are now criminals. (Sidenote: Only a small number of people…

Copyright infringement is not shoplifting.

Re: Sweet sanity: 75% of Americans say infringement fines should be under $100

#20

Post by wmf » Thu, Nov 17, 2011, 1:28 AM UTC

While that is just plain common sense, there are still problems. If the fine is no great hardship and your chance of getting caught is less than 1%, it's rational to always infringe rather than pay. Raising the rate of enforcement would be hard since $100 doesn't cover the court costs and thus the industry would be losing money on every case — even ones they win.