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Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

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Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#771

Post by loceng »

SigmundA wrote: post #565
loceng wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a comedic piece by Awaken with JP, where he points out many historical events where within ~2-10 years of a government taking the guns away from the population then genocide occurred: "Why Guns Must Be Banned Now!" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbkNIoJ-9jY

This is the same guy who didn't know the difference between Infection Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Ratio, then compared the The IF Ratio of Covid to the IF Rate of the Flu and proclaimed the Flu was deadlier because math, and straight faced didn't realize he had two orders of magnitude error. Then he post a video making fun of his video getting removed due to misinformation that he never retracted or correcte…

[flagged]

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#772

Post by Arnt »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #646
darkcha0s wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I will get a hail of downvotes for this, but again you're comparing apples and oranges. The operators are using crypto for a wide range of applications. Using a mixer has probably 99.9% illegal reasons and 0.1% legitimate uses. Making money laundering harder is a good thing, no matter how many people here will try to convince you it isn't.

> Making money laundering harder is a good thing, no matter how many people here will try to convince you it isn't. What a useless, puerile argument

The most important countries in the world are democracies. Even if the demos is occasionally influenced by poor arguments, the laws made are valid anyway. And the laws say (simplifying) that those who carry out money transfers have to take reasonable precautions against money laundering. Details vary, particularly wrt what's reasonable.

"Doing nothing" isn't reasonable though, and the people has decided. Calling the people's arguments puerile or useless makes no difference.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#773

Post by jshen »

MrPatan wrote: post #745
colinmhayes wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not 100% sure if anything, but I’ll go with 99% sure that most cash transaction is not money laundering.

Cool, now answer the actual question. Are you 99% sure that most cash volume is not money laundering?

I’m sure that far more cash transactions by volume are not money laundering compared to tornado cash. Tornado cash’s only real purpose is money laundering.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#774

Post by babypuncher »

internet_user wrote: post #734
babypuncher wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Czech Republic is a welfare state with universal healthcare, free university tuition, and other incredibly strong social safety nets in place. As a result, they rank #12 on the inequality-adjusted Human Development Index. More people living happy lives without fear of economic destitution is a good way to keep crime rates low. Desperation breeds antisocial behavior. I'll never argue that the presence of guns dire…

I never seen this "inequality-adjusted Human Development Index", but I'm certain Germany ranks higher on it than CZ, it is quite bit more developed than CZ in many areas. Many Yet, they don't have shall issue laws, no constitutional rights like in CZ and USA, and their homicides (firearms or not) are somewhat higher. They border each other and have a long shared history going back a thousand years. Seems regulations…

Germany ranks slightly higher at #10. The US is down at #28.

Wikipedia has more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequalit...

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#775

Post by bb88 »

kortilla wrote: post #746
bb88 wrote: post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, for one, believe that felons should lose some rights. Personally I think felons should keep speech and voting rights, but anything related to violence should be prohibited.

Why? A felony doesn’t imply violence. If someone serves their time I don’t see why they should be a lesser person for life.

But it does show a lack of respect for the rule of law, as well often a lack of empathy for others. The best predictor of whether you will commit a crime in the future, is if you've committed one in the past.

I think the hardest one to talk about is the non-violent sex offender -- CSAM and the like. They have a high re-offending rate, and rehabilitation efforts aren't very effective in this area. On one hand they're only a handgun away from being a violent offender, but on the other we don't want to lock them up for life.

Personally I think it's a good tradeoff.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#776

Post by SigmundA »

loceng wrote: post #771
SigmundA wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the same guy who didn't know the difference between Infection Fatality Rate and Infection Fatality Ratio, then compared the The IF Ratio of Covid to the IF Rate of the Flu and proclaimed the Flu was deadlier because math, and straight faced didn't realize he had two orders of magnitude error. Then he post a video making fun of his video getting removed due to misinformation that he never retracted or correcte…

[flagged]

I am claiming this guy puts huge amounts of one sided misinformation out there including this video.

1. Mass shootings are committed by those brainwashed by government psy-ops programs to motivate the masses to outlaw guns so they can become tyrannical.

2. Only tyrannical governments enact gun control

3. Gun control leads to extermination of a population.

4. The USA is following this pattern and I guess the left is essentially compared to Hitler or Stalin rising to power to perform genocide after they successfully disarm the right.

He never mentions once all the countries with successful strict gun control and free societies such as most of Europe, Canada, Japan, and Australia. As though by enacting more strict gun control will lead to genocide always with complete surety.

His whole channel is an exercise in Brandolini's law and he's is most definitely a huge part of the problem.

The funny thing I am a gun owner and support the second amendment, but everyone seems to forget the "well regulated" part of that amendment and the fact that currently there are many "arms" we are not allowed to own, the same ones the military uses. Do you think everyone should own a machine gun if they want? How about a rocket launcher? What about a nuke? We already draw a line at certain arms moving that line or adjusting the regulations around it would not be without precedent.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#777

Post by saurik »

saghm wrote: post #656
saurik wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this can only be true because you must have defined "launder money" to be any private usage of money (which isn't a sufficient definition of money laundering, to be clear). If you claim otherwise, then you need to be more specific with your reasoning. To start: why would anyone need privacy--of communication or of shared resources (payment)--but for something illegal? If you have an answer for that for co…

> If you have an answer for that for communication (which you claim to and of course should), then it also is the same answer for money. Not everyone believes that money is a form of speech, current US Court rulings on campaign finance notwithstanding.

FWIW, I didn't just say that and then drop the issue: I provided the step-by-step explanation as to why. I also certainly understand people disagree: that's why I felt the need to leave the comment at all ;P.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#778

Post by saurik »

closeparen wrote: post #697
saurik wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this can only be true because you must have defined "launder money" to be any private usage of money (which isn't a sufficient definition of money laundering, to be clear). If you claim otherwise, then you need to be more specific with your reasoning. To start: why would anyone need privacy--of communication or of shared resources (payment)--but for something illegal? If you have an answer for that for co…

Providing infrastructure that money launders could use, or actually do use, is not categorically illegal. But the law establishes certain obligations to try to mitigate money laundering. There are controls you need to implement, expertise you need to have on staff, a level of sophistication that your AML program needs to demonstrate. And there are enforcement regimes with audits and licensing to backstop all that. It…

I am not sure how you expect to implement any of those without undermining the end-to-end nature of the private communication. Can you maybe explain how this would work in the context of the messaging application?

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#779

Post by shkkmo »

phpisthebest wrote: post #763
shkkmo wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factually false, if you believe this you are in an echo chamber. Yes, there are a few who want to ban guns, but I know many people, some of whom are gun owners, who support reasonable restrictions. Trying to paint the entire movement with the views of it's most extreme members is absolutely bad faith communication.

So "gun owners" fall into 2 camps 1. Sport Shooters 2. Self Defenders There are some that over lap, but I am not a sport shooter, i own guns exclusively for self defense, most gun owners that "support reasonable restrictions" do so because they only care about maintaining shooting sports, and are fine with restrictions because normally they are targeted to self defense uses of fire arms. There is also a small subset…

> So "gun owners" fall into 2 camps

Again, not true. You need to get out of your filter bubble and meet more kinds of people. People own guns for many reasons and those different reasons do drive different gun usage.

A ban on semi-automatic rifles and high capacity pistols is not even remotely the same thing as banning all guns or even banning all non muskets. I don't think such a ban has popular support even among those who do support greater restrictions.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#780

Post by closeparen »

saurik wrote: post #778
closeparen wrote: post #697

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Providing infrastructure that money launders could use, or actually do use, is not categorically illegal. But the law establishes certain obligations to try to mitigate money laundering. There are controls you need to implement, expertise you need to have on staff, a level of sophistication that your AML program needs to demonstrate. And there are enforcement regimes with audits and licensing to backstop all that. It…

I am not sure how you expect to implement any of those without undermining the end-to-end nature of the private communication. Can you maybe explain how this would work in the context of the messaging application?

Correct. One of the main anti money laundering controls is Know Your Customer (KYC). Anonymity is not allowed.
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