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Essential Climbing Knots

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Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#141

Post by 2mol »

bmj wrote: post #120
2mol wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody does a bowline, that's insane because you can't ring-load (cross-load) it. [0] Europeans sometimes do the double bowline (traced), but the naming is ambiguous in english, so you have to google double bowline on a bight. Americans used to do yosemite bowlines, but that fell out of fashion because figure eight (safe and foolproof) and double bowline (safe, trivial to untie after hefty lead falls) cover literally…

I've been using a double bowline with the Yosemite-style stopper for a long time (I've also heard it referred to a Jack's bend, but I can't find anything quickly to confirm that). Some people give me a hard time about using a double bowline, saying it is "unsafe," but their reason usually boils down to "it's hard to visually inspect." My belay partners (very small list, because I don't let just anyone belay me on lea…

It's generally agreed that it is totally safe (it solves the crossloading issue). I think we can all stick with the proven safe knots that we are comfortable with, and the fact it makes partner check a bit trickier applies also to the double bowline on a bight. I'm equally happy to triple-check myself and make it clear to my belayers that they are off the hook there.

Here is my pitch for "doppelter bulin" (double bowline on a bight):

Even if by some miracle the ENTIRE retraced half of that knot came undone, you would STILL be tied in with a normal bowline. I do a stopper knot too, but I think that illustrates just how bomber it is. And I only use it for single pitches for lead falls, on multipitches I still simply do a figure 8, because why get fancy?

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#142

Post by jeramey »

z5h wrote: post #126
fizzizist1 wrote: post #107

No love for the Alpine Butterfly?

Was looking for this comment. Super easy to tie (on a bight). Can be loaded in any direction. And then easy to untie.

I love the alpine butterfly. It also helps improve the security and strength of a trucker's hitch compared to the usual slipped overhand knot loop which can be handy occasionally with heavy loads!

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#143

Post by idealmedtech »

kritiko wrote: post #113
idealmedtech wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you clean a figure 8 really well, it's just as easy to untie after a whip as a bowline (okay, maybe not just as easy, but very close), and much much more universal for your partner to inspect. The process I follow to ensure a clean knot every time: 1. Tie your figure 8, with the tail the same size every time (use your body as a ruler, testing a few lengths to get the perfect size) 2. Pass the tail up through your…

I just learned this from watching Hard is Easy on YouTube. And I've been climbing for 10 years!

I originally just stumbled upon it myself (when I first started I was reading a lot of topology books), but that video was great for showing the load strand effect! Felt great to have stumbled into the "right" way by accident

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#144

Post by defrost »

leksak wrote: post #32
defrost wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point re: the Klemheist although the Prussik serves well enough. For my part I wouldn't use a figure 8 in a bight to get a loop in the middle of a lonf rope that's going to take load - the butterfly knot is far superior.

Can you please elaborate as to why it is superior?

Apologies for late reply, busy day - I'm happy to throw in with the dot points made by roessland on this.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#145

Post by dmos62 »

hpaavola wrote: post #109
dmos62 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is banning a book more civilized than banning a knot?

I have no idea why are you talking about books in a thread about knots. Feel free to talk about books as much as you wish, but it sure would be more beneficial to do it somewhere else.

My comments are in reply to your statement about not understanding how a civilized country can ban knots. To spell it out, I'm saying that we love banning things, and banning a knot is in line with that: it's not even the most disturbing ban we have. For example, we ban symbols (e.g. swastikas).

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#146

Post by hpaavola »

dmos62 wrote: post #145
hpaavola wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why are you talking about books in a thread about knots. Feel free to talk about books as much as you wish, but it sure would be more beneficial to do it somewhere else.

My comments are in reply to your statement about not understanding how a civilized country can ban knots. To spell it out, I'm saying that we love banning things, and banning a knot is in line with that: it's not even the most disturbing ban we have. For example, we ban symbols (e.g. swastikas).

And there's your mistake, thinking that knots would be the same as books. Knots are knots.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#147

Post by todd8 »

PostOnce wrote: post #74

The Ashley Book of Knots became public domain a few years ago (70 years after Ashley died) and you should absolutely read it or at least skim it here: https://archive.org/details/TheAshleyBookOfKnots This would have been sooner had Disney not robbed us of our own culture by purchasing whatever legislation they feel benefits them, regardless of the cost to the rest of us. Sorry, I'm bitter, but it really is a fantasti…

I've had the Ashley Book of Knots for a long time. It's great. According to the book, Ashley was one of the last people to actually work on a traditional square rigged sailing ship. In the book I learned that the ship's carpenter early on a voyage would have all the sailors bring their pocket knives to him so that he could snap the points off the blades in order to make them less dangerous during disputes on the ship. The book is full of interesting passages like this.

The book provides an encyclopedic coverage of knots and ropes; I highly recommend it to those curious about knot. There is one downside to the book, there are a number of new knots that were first described after the book was written, and some of these are worth knowing, for example the Zeppelin bend or the Simple Simon Under knot, see [1] and [2].

If someone wanted to know how to tie just one knot for possible use in an emergency, the first one covered in the featured article is a good one. The article calls it the Trace Figure Eight knot. Other sources call it the a figure-eight loop or figure-eight follow through loop. It's strong and reliable, and it's easy to learn and remember. (Its downside is that it can jam quite tight and become hard to untie.) There is also a variation of this knot for tying two similar ropes together. Bends are the category of knots for tying two ropes or lines together so this knot is known as the figure-eight bend. See [3] and [4]. Naturally, exercise care before trusting your life to a knot and consult with experts before doing so; I've seen a lot of foolish knots.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_bend

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Simon_under

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure-eight_loop

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flemish_bend

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#148

Post by dmos62 »

hpaavola wrote: post #146
dmos62 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comments are in reply to your statement about not understanding how a civilized country can ban knots. To spell it out, I'm saying that we love banning things, and banning a knot is in line with that: it's not even the most disturbing ban we have. For example, we ban symbols (e.g. swastikas).

And there's your mistake, thinking that knots would be the same as books. Knots are knots.

Buddy, you're a broken record.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#149

Post by leksak »

defrost wrote: post #144
leksak wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please elaborate as to why it is superior?

Apologies for late reply, busy day - I'm happy to throw in with the dot points made by roessland on this.

I'm a bit confused though, I thought you were referring to a figure 8 on a bight which is often used when cleaning an anchor while roessland seems to talk about using a figure 8 to join two ropes (not tying it on a bight).

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#150

Post by leksak »

quchen wrote: post #61
leksak wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preferably a bowline with a stopper knot or a inherently secure bowline like the End Bound Single Bowline (EBSB) or Scott's Locked Bowline

These seem to be more complicated versions of the Yosemite Bowline; do you have any info on that one? It’s been my go-to bowline for all applications (climbing, sailing), yet now I’m wondering whether it has some weakness I don’t know about.

Google "paci knots pdf", it raises two issues and demonstrate the potentially fatal one
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