Having to “cuddle under blankets” is one thing, frozen pipes and water damage is another.
Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
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Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#12Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes. And there are still fools who think that economic integration somehow prevents wars, which was shown to be false after WWI. These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them. See what's happening with China and the US as more proof that handing over your ec…
You're going to need some citation on that Russia connection.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#13Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes. And there are still fools who think that economic integration somehow prevents wars, which was shown to be false after WWI. These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them. See what's happening with China and the US as more proof that handing over your ec…
Russia and the EU aren't at war, neither is the US and China. You haven't really proven that economic integration doesn't prevent wars.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#14Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes. And there are still fools who think that economic integration somehow prevents wars, which was shown to be false after WWI. These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them. See what's happening with China and the US as more proof that handing over your ec…
> because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes.
Every competing energy source lobby is probably trying to stack the chances against each other, but the activists were not by and large funded by Russia.
> These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them.
You can't expect any party to hold still forever. If you provoke your partner long enough they might react at some point. In the long-term that is basically a guarantee.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#15And still the current plan is for Germany to shut down its few remaining nuclear reactors by the end of the year, while the company/companies maintaining them are saying they can keep them running? Please stop the shutdown, ffs, are you insane?
Let's try to stop Germany from harming itself further via international pressure. Blame and shame. Call them idiots to their faces. Point fingers. They need to shocked.
The germans seem to need to need a healthy dose of sanity/science. Their politics have been hijacked by anti-nuclear anti-science activists for too long.
Their celebrated "Mittelstand" industry is no good if they can't provide basic functions such as electric power in a clean way, but then again I'm not really sure they care.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#16Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
Well more of Europe's Uranium comes from Russia than Germanys gas. It is not like Germany has vast Uranium reserves.
When the Green/Social Democrat coalition under Schröder decided on stopping nuclear the idea was to largely exchange that for renewables (and the German wind and solar industry was leading in the world at the time). This would have been a much bigger step toward energy independence. The coal, nuclear and gas lobby (note that they typically are the same lobbyists) strongly pushed to reverse that decision and the Conservative, free Liberal coalition under Merkel initially reversed the decision, but at the same time was generally pushing for the cheapest energy solutions, which was largely gas. The strong regulations put into place for wind and solar at the time largely destroyed Germanys wind and solar industry, because domestic demand Collapsed.
It is important to remember that Germany has still very strong manufacturing industries who hold a lot of sway over the government. When Fukushima happened public sentiment went strongly towards quiting nuclear again. There was not really much opposition from industry either, because nuclear was more expensive than gas so we saw an even stronger push toward gas.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#17Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
Not German, but the Greens (ruling party) in Germany basically built their platform on being anti-nuclear. They'd rather burn wet coal than walk that back.
Just for completeness, the Greens are in a coalition with social democrats(SPD), liberals(FDP) (names are labels, not political directions). The chancellor is from social democrats(SPD).
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#18Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
Left wing in Europe often has lots of Soviet sympathisers among their ranks. Basically USA=Bad, Russia=Good still lives on somehow.
I don't know anything about the situation in Germany in particular though, but I wouldn't be surprised if they saw integration with Russia as a good thing rather than a bad thing.
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes. And there are still fools who think that economic integration somehow prevents wars, which was shown to be false after WWI. These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them. See what's happening with China and the US as more proof that handing over your ec…
Russia and the EU aren't at war, neither is the US and China. You haven't really proven that economic integration doesn't prevent wars.
Really?
No sanctions? No finland minister asking to ban russian tourists from schengen?
Really?
Ok.. turn the ac then!
Re: Germany sees shift in sentiment toward atomic energy
#20Can any Germans on HN explain why Germany finds it preferable to give up their energy independence in nuclear and instead buy it from their potential adversary in Russia? What possible advantages are there to buying the resource that literally keeps the lights on from a country that you have conflicts with?
because their anti-nuclear environmental groups were actually being funded by Russia behind the scenes. And there are still fools who think that economic integration somehow prevents wars, which was shown to be false after WWI. These people said if Europe just paid a bunch of money for Russian energy they'd obviously never attack them. See what's happening with China and the US as more proof that handing over your ec…
Not German, but I suspect memories of Fukushima and Chernobyl could be weighing on the minds of some. Perhaps this is an irrational concern but people are not necessarily rational - particularly when randomly polled on topics they know little about.