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Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

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Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#41

Post by jrochkind1 »

tstrimple wrote: post #30
drstewart wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a case of negative rights versus positive rights https://alabamapolicy.org/research/understanding-the-differe...

That’s just the latest justification for the lack of critical thinking around what actually constitutes a right. Those “negative vs positive” rights people don’t seem to have any problem with the “right to an attorney, if you cannot afford one then one will be provided for you”. It’s always been an incredibly disingenuous argument.

I mean, plenty of them do, actually...

I agree with you, and I think what takes it apart is starting to think about the fact that humans are social, it is not really possible to be fully human apart from a community. The idea of an independent individual unreliant on anyone else as a starting point, which I think is the basis of this "negative vs postive rights" framework, is a myth, is not how humans work. The questions are what kinds of communities we want, how we want to relate to each other -- not whether to.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#42

Post by drstewart »

tstrimple wrote: post #30
drstewart wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a case of negative rights versus positive rights https://alabamapolicy.org/research/understanding-the-differe...

That’s just the latest justification for the lack of critical thinking around what actually constitutes a right. Those “negative vs positive” rights people don’t seem to have any problem with the “right to an attorney, if you cannot afford one then one will be provided for you”. It’s always been an incredibly disingenuous argument.

Sorry, this is a strawman argument. You just claim without proof that all of these people have no problem with some random right and therefore the argument is disingenuous?

There are definitely people that don't think a right to a free attorney should be a right. There are also people who think that it's okay for this to exist but doesn't necessarily correspond to the same level of a right as a negative right like free speech. These are entirely consistent positions to hold.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#43

Post by mamonster »

oblak wrote: post #39
mamonster wrote: post #24

Well when you say "human right" and a government insists that home ownership is something they will focus on as a human right in their program, to a finance person what you are really saying is "this asset has a free put option attached to it". And having a backstop like that is a very sought after feature for speculators. It isn't the only area where speculators take advantage of it( for example energy generation is…

The poster above you (whittingtonaaon) proposed raising taxes on secondary, tertiary, etc. homes. That makes sense to me but "investors" looking for easy prey would surely hate on such solution. It's not like no one could have thought of this until now. I do not say this with the US in mind.

Most money in real estate isn't made on selling people 2nd homes. Unless I misunderstood your comment and you think corporations and investors shouldn't be able to own more than a single home at once(so landlord abolishment)?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#44

Post by nly »

Property crowdfunding (online trading of dividend paying shares in individually managed rental properties) has been a thing in the UK since not long after the the financial crisis.

This website[0] lists 18 companies in the property equity category, and I know of at least 1 more reputable firm not on the list.

The reality is that low yields, tax changes, and new regulations have recently made being a small time landlord a lot less attractive, which inevitably means big companies with economies of scale and tax efficiencies are going to start moving in on the industry.

[0] https://thecrowdspace.com/directory/real-estate-crowdfunding...

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#45

Post by djohnston »

dominotw wrote: post #16
webmobdev wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Otherwise it would lead to a concentration of wealth among the few, and increase the gap between the rich and the poor. And are you asking why personal freedom is so important to people?

People can invest in stocks/index funds. Why is real estate only route to 'personal freedom'.

Because you need a home to live in, the same can't be said of securities.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#46

Post by kasey_junk »

whittingtonaaon wrote: post #29

I think there is a big problem with housing affordability in many countries. It’s also a promising investment because, as Mark Twain says, “Buy land, they’re not making it any more.” This makes land unlike other commodities (you can just make more iPhones or whatever.) The situation leads to some movements which see land as inherently a public good, such as Georgism, on which there is a good Wikipedia article. I thin…

Every property tax I’ve ever paid has that property. At least the first one is lower than the rest. It’s frequently called a homestead exemption or a primary residence exemption.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#47

Post by madeofpalk »

lr4444lr wrote: post #40

No, because governments' ability to procure it for the needy is a very separable problem. But let me play Devil's Advocate: agriculture, the foundation of the food supply, is one of the most commoditized markets that exist. Does this bother you too? Why not? If it's because food is generally a smaller part of income, highly responsive to market pressure to keep prices low in addition to some stabilizing subsidies fro…

Well, why can't real estate work the same way?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#48

Post by xtiansimon »

I’m suspicious of the trend the same way I’m suspicious of cooks at restaurants who yak about the food being shit. Or the drug manufacturers who failed communities by driving profits in the sale of opioids.

If the investment vehicle is detached from the people who live in the homes, then I fear we loose touch with the humanity of the occupants. The slum lord is sociopathic. Home real estate investment vehicle yada yada’s will trend systematically in the same direction. A race to the bottom of inhumanities and language similar to real estate listing euphemisms—

‘quaint’ : cramped :: ‘quaint’ : single mother with four kids and drives for snoober.

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#49

Post by bennysomething »

pca006132 wrote: post #33

Yes, but I don't think this is just a recent trend. In Hong Kong, we spent over half of our income for rent [1]. Median per capita floor area for accomodation of 15 square metres, with some people living in subdivided flats with per capita floor area of 5.3 square metres [2]. The average waiting time for public housing is 6.1 years [3], note that public housing are government provided housing available with lower ren…

But how would you tackle it without making the problem worse?

Re: Ask HN: Anyone else feels the commoditization of real estate is unethical?

#50

Post by Kbelicius »

lr4444lr wrote: post #40

No, because governments' ability to procure it for the needy is a very separable problem. But let me play Devil's Advocate: agriculture, the foundation of the food supply, is one of the most commoditized markets that exist. Does this bother you too? Why not? If it's because food is generally a smaller part of income, highly responsive to market pressure to keep prices low in addition to some stabilizing subsidies fro…

> agriculture, the foundation of the food supply, is one of the most commoditized markets that exist.

And one of the most regulated and subsidized markets...

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