Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer • Hacker News Board

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#291

Post by quickthrower2 » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:01 AM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #61

crazygringo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. And I say this as someone who owns and frequently cooks with stainless steel, cast iron, and non-stick, I have for decades and also worked in a professional kitchen at one point. Some things are always better in stainless or cast iron... I tend towards meats in cast iron and veggies in stainless, though it really depends. Other things are easiest in nonstick, but can be learned in stainless, like eggs sun…

> Eggs overeasy without breaking the yolk is really hard though. This is strange to hear from a professional chef. I cook eggs overeasy on my cast iron all the time. What works for me is preheating the pan on moderate heat for a minute or two, putting in a bit of butter, and using a metal spatula. Haven't had a broken egg in forever. I've certainly found you need less oil to prevent sticking on a well-seasoned cast i…

I wonder if the source of eggs you are both using might factor into it? Size, age, fridge/not, free range and what the hen was fed.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#292

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:33 AM UTC

jimmaswell wrote: post #61

crazygringo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. And I say this as someone who owns and frequently cooks with stainless steel, cast iron, and non-stick, I have for decades and also worked in a professional kitchen at one point. Some things are always better in stainless or cast iron... I tend towards meats in cast iron and veggies in stainless, though it really depends. Other things are easiest in nonstick, but can be learned in stainless, like eggs sun…

> Eggs overeasy without breaking the yolk is really hard though. This is strange to hear from a professional chef. I cook eggs overeasy on my cast iron all the time. What works for me is preheating the pan on moderate heat for a minute or two, putting in a bit of butter, and using a metal spatula. Haven't had a broken egg in forever. I've certainly found you need less oil to prevent sticking on a well-seasoned cast i…

[deleted]

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#293

Post by jimmaswell » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:42 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #291

jimmaswell wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eggs overeasy without breaking the yolk is really hard though. This is strange to hear from a professional chef. I cook eggs overeasy on my cast iron all the time. What works for me is preheating the pan on moderate heat for a minute or two, putting in a bit of butter, and using a metal spatula. Haven't had a broken egg in forever. I've certainly found you need less oil to prevent sticking on a well-seasoned cast i…

I wonder if the source of eggs you are both using might factor into it? Size, age, fridge/not, free range and what the hen was fed.

I overlooked I've pretty much only been eating duck eggs for a long time. Maybe I'll try it again with chicken just to see how it goes.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#294

Post by sizzle » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:50 AM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #127

elil17 wrote: post #2

The study didn’t actually find anything related to cookware. Modern Teflon in the US doesn’t expose people to PFOA/PFOS like old version did due to new regulations. The chemicals could also be entering peoples body’s through drinking water or bioaccumulation in meat or plants. You should throw away nonstick cookware from before 2013, but new nonstick cookware sold in the US does not have PFOA. I believe the EU follow…

I appreciate you updating your comment with an informed update that contradicted your initial argument. When a consumer chemical is discovered to be harmful, there's a tendency from companies to ask their research chemists to come up with a new chemical that shares the same beneficial properties but without the baggage of the provably dangerous chemical. There's a VERY good chance that the new chemical simply hasn't…

Yeah the BPA free thing is ridiculous, just replaced it with some other molecules that are tweaked and not very studied.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#295

Post by sa1 » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:52 AM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #279

Robotbeat wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating edible oils to very high heats does tend to produce harmful chemicals as well. EDIT: For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4029104/

Aren't they polymerized into the metal, though? I don't think they come off that easily, barring steel wool or something extremely abrasive.

I don't think chemicals in Teflon come off any easier, but they still do.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#296

Post by stouset » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

krrrh wrote: post #265

pmulard wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cook eggs on cast iron without them sticking, but it requires maintenance on the seasoning. The trick is to use some butter when cooking with eggs, and they slide right off. A quick wipe with a paper towel and the pan is clean (leaving butter residue helps keep it oiled for next time). Cast iron is a pain to clean if you burn food and the burnt pieces stick, but the investment into learning how to cook with it is w…

The most important thing I learned about cast iron is that the idea that you have to baby it is a hold over from the days when soap had lye in it. Today’s dish detergent is fine and won’t damage your seasoning, neither will basic green nylon scrubbing sponges. I was almost despondent about my carefully seasoned pans not delivering until I really went to town on them and removed the dull layer of burned on material an…

Yep. Your cast iron will straight up work better if you thoroughly clean it with detergent and manual scrubbing, thanks to removing the rough and/or sticky surface layer of partially-polymerized fats and oils.

This in no way damages your seasoning.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#297

Post by hackerlight » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:58 AM UTC

surfpel wrote: post #59

codysoyland wrote: post #42

For those looking for an alternative, carbon steel pans are stamped or spun from steel sheets and are seasoned like cast iron, but are typically thinner and have longer handles. These have been a game changer for my home cooking and I never heard of them until recently. I highly recommend getting a small one for your morning eggs. De Buyer is a popular high quality brand.

Health issues aside, speaking as someone who uses only carbon steel and stainless steel cookware, I still wouldn’t recommend it for most people. It’s a lot of work just to maintain and learn how to work with these pans. That being said, I love how much more forgiving, durable, and long lasting these pans are compared to Teflon coated pans and I’ll never go back.

I'm a novice and find it easy to maintain. There's no need to clean it extremely well between cooks, just with tap water and your fingernail. Some small amount of leftover seasoning is okay.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#298

Post by throwaway09223 » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #134

daveyjonezz wrote: post #31

Cast iron pans are cheap, will outlive you, and work nearly as well with enough seasoning / butter :)

Cast iron pans are such a pain in the ass to maintain and use that I'll rather take the cancer instead.

I do nothing at all for mine. I cook eggs, pancake and sausage in it every morning. After, I run it under some water and scrape it with a spatula, then toss it on the burner for a few seconds to dry.

It's significantly easier than dealing with nonstick, which has to be carefully kept from touching anything metal on the inner surface.

It's easier to flip things like eggs on cast iron because I can use a thin metal spatula instead of a much thicker, nonstick-safe plastic one.

If I manage to get something crusty on it I can use the green scrubber pads or even steel wool, which can't ever be used on nonstick.

If you think cast iron is harder you're really doing it wrong.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#299

Post by hackerlight » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

lend000 wrote: post #93

So, what's the solution nowadays? Is the cookware really the greatest source of these chemicals in the human body when properly used? It seems like lower hanging fruit is avoiding Teflon dental floss, "compostable" straws/bowls, cosmetics, using an activated carbon water filter, etc.

I use a Stainless Steel pan with no coating for cooking, and a microwaveable glass for drinking. Worst case scenario would be some excess nickel from the cheap alloy that they use for the steel.

Re: Study finds link between 'forever chemicals' in cookware and liver cancer

#300

Post by acdha » Sat, Aug 13, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

moffkalast wrote: post #134

daveyjonezz wrote: post #31

Cast iron pans are cheap, will outlive you, and work nearly as well with enough seasoning / butter :)

Cast iron pans are such a pain in the ass to maintain and use that I'll rather take the cancer instead.

I’m curious, what’s so hard about it? I find they’re much easier because you never have to worry about using stronger tools - soap & a Brillo pad will take care of almost anything in seconds and you can use a metal scraper for the worst whereas I had to throw out our last “non-stick” pot because some fruit adhered hard enough to take the coating off. The main thing I keep in mind is that Teflon is only really better for maybe the first year - it’s so fragile that you’ll spend most of your time with inferior results and bonus health worries.

There is a cult around seasoning cast iron but those people are lunatics. It’s like adding an audiophile for buying advice and then saying a home setup isn’t a good idea because the moonrock needle costs too much. Clean it, cook a pound of bacon every few months, that’s it.