Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

fiod.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 827 posts

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#511

Post by teakettle42 »

alsetmusic wrote: post #467
seanw444 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, it's an argument for harming people that produce legitimately useful things that criminals pervert. It's the same argument people make for banning guns in the US.

> It's the same argument people make for banning guns in the US. To be fair, I think most are arguing to restrict guns rather than ban. I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith.

> I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith.

Well, who is “they”?

The majority of activist organizations arguing for restrictions absolutely have an end-goal of banning all guns.

Claiming “we just want common sense gun laws” is a far larger bad-faith distortion of the truth than “they wanna take all your guns”.

Gun laws proposed by these organizations only go one way: more restrictive.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#512

Post by owens99 »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #485
aqme28 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have maybe 300MM from early investments, and are a private person who doesn't want fame, then what does Satoshi's hoard actually buy you?

His unsold hoard is currently worth about 20 billion dollars.

Selling this may ruin the story and crash the price. It would probably go against his values and mission. He could easily have other early wallets and have $B's. Most likely explanation though is that it was Hal Finney who passed shortly after Satoshi disappeared.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#513

Post by babypuncher »

seanw444 wrote: post #473
alsetmusic wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the same argument people make for banning guns in the US. To be fair, I think most are arguing to restrict guns rather than ban. I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith.

Taking some leads to all. It's not something that should be compromised on. Gun restrictions won't end until ownership is so legally complex and time consuming that nobody can reasonably do it anymore. Of course it won't be an outright ban. That would never succeed. The frog in boiling water analogy applies here perfectly.

Would that really be a bad thing? Most other developed nations seem to get by fine with very strict rules on gun ownership, and coincidentally they have far lower rates for gun violence.

When something has far more capacity for harm than practical utility, it makes sense to regulate the crap out of it. Most people buying AR-15s in the US are not buying them to keep pests off their farm.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#514

Post by joelthelion »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #485
aqme28 wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have maybe 300MM from early investments, and are a private person who doesn't want fame, then what does Satoshi's hoard actually buy you?

His unsold hoard is currently worth about 20 billion dollars.

It's not. Trying to sell it would crash the market.

Still worth a lot, obviously.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#515

Post by ROTMetro »

ROTMetro wrote: post #389
lalaland1125 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As abortion laws restart, states won't begin by arresting anyone who's ever donated to Planned Parenthood. But if left unchecked, some will eventually get there. First thing, you can't arrest people for prior donations as postfacto laws are unconstitutional. Second, if abortion is considered murder, why should it be legal to fund illegal abortions? We generally don't allow people to fund criminal activity for good…

TLDR: You have no rights in America other than the ones you can afford to pay a lawyer to force to be enforced. Dude, as someone in the system, ex post facto happens all the time. In my case I can challenge it, but if I get slapped with lets say a completely 'theoretical' $5000 ex post facto "fine" it's going to cost more in lawyers to challenge, plus piss off my judge/PO for wasting time. As someone who can't get a…

Caveat needed here: This does not apply if you took a plea for lesser time instead of accepting the 'trial tax' (which normally quadrupoles your sentence from say 2-7 years to 20-40) which removes your constitutional right as you agree "not to make any collateral attacks on your sentence" in the plea agreement in addition to your right to trial. (Yes the higher courts will probably override this but most guys give up when the district rejects them. It's scary as hell challenging the prosecutor/judge on your own from prison, dealing with the harassment from the mailroom cops, one out of maybe every 4 months being able to buy new typewriter ribbons in commissary, copiers down, high copier fees. The entire process is designed to discourage you from pursuing your rights.)

The system shouldn't work like insurance claim submissions that if you fight long enough/hard enough or can pay someone to fight for you ultimately grudgingly your constitutional rights are recognized. Remember, China's constitution includes democracy and free speech too, but just like our rights they enacted 'reasonable rules that happen to be barriers to those rights as an unfortunate side effect'.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#516

Post by zmgsabst »

arcticbull wrote: post #472
carlosdp wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, in June—when the link says they began the investigation—it was publicly known Tornado was being used to launder money. If the developer kept working on it, they knew what they were doing. People keep saying this in this thread. Is everyone at WhatsApp also guilty of a crime for continuing to work on WhatsApp even though they know the Taliban uses it for communication?

> Is everyone at WhatsApp also guilty of a crime for continuing to work on WhatsApp even though they know the Taliban uses it for communication? Of course not, because intent matters. The team at WhatsApp works super hard to keep people who shouldn't be using it off the platform, so that everyone else can derive use and enjoyment. If WhatsApp was built as a platform to facilitate terrorist communication you're damn r…

What if I don’t want my employer knowing I spent my BTC/ETH/etc on a porn website — so I want a way to disassociate the payment address they know from my spending account?

…or guns, alcohol, abortions, etc.

People have a need for privacy and disassociating spending from receiving for perfectly normal and legal reasons.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#518

Post by owens99 »

izzytcp wrote: post #499
narrator wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have alleged that Paul Leroux, who is sitting in prison right now, is Satoshi. That would explain why Satoshi hasn't moved any coins or sought fame.

I invested a lot of time on his identity, not for anything just because I was bored and curious. I highly suspect it’s Adam Back and he currently sits in a tax haven, Malta.

Very unlikely. Hal Finney is the more likely candidate.

Adam is/was not a good programmer like Satoshi was. Satoshi was in favor of alt coins in Adam is notoriously against them. "Adam put enough effort into proclaiming that Bitcoin was based on the concept of HashCash that, if he was Satoshi, Satoshi would have given HashCash more credit." - Another HN User. Satoshi had a positive attitude and Adam is notoriously unpleasant.

Hal is a great programmer, worked for Phil Zimmerman on PGP. Hal is the first person Satoshi contacted, first person to mine outside Satoshi (op sec). Hal was aware of all the prior works that failed, b-money, bit gold, hashcash, etc. Linguistic analysis of the Bitcoin whitepaper and Satoshi's forum posts most closely match Hal's writings. Hal lived in the same town for 10 years as did Dorian Satoshi Nakamoto. Hal died of ALS shortly after Satoshi disappeared (he knew it was coming and that he couldn't continue).

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#519

Post by ribosometronome »

teakettle42 wrote: post #511
alsetmusic wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the same argument people make for banning guns in the US. To be fair, I think most are arguing to restrict guns rather than ban. I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith.

> I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith. Well, who is “they”? The majority of activist organizations arguing for restrictions absolutely have an end-goal of banning all guns. Claiming “we just want common sense gun laws” is a far larger bad-faith distortion of the truth than “they wanna take all your guns”. Gun laws proposed by these o…

Discussions on the internet are tons of fun and extremely useful when we just ascribe whatever secret end goal on to organizations that we want. May I try? Actually, the majority of activist organizations are fronts for gun manufacturers to create a fear of them being regulated away to help push a buy-now mentality. claiming otherwise is bad faith distortion of reality!

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#520

Post by ribosometronome »

seanw444 wrote: post #473
alsetmusic wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the same argument people make for banning guns in the US. To be fair, I think most are arguing to restrict guns rather than ban. I’m not saying you did this, but many people deliberately distort that into “they wanna take all your guns” in bad faith.

Taking some leads to all. It's not something that should be compromised on. Gun restrictions won't end until ownership is so legally complex and time consuming that nobody can reasonably do it anymore. Of course it won't be an outright ban. That would never succeed. The frog in boiling water analogy applies here perfectly.

>Taking some leads to all.

Like how the Assault Weapons Ban in 94 in the US led to the complete and total restriction of guns in the US.

Post reply on HN