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The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

wired.com

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Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#91

Post by colechristensen »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #85
colechristensen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS is the cheap, easy, and more accurate method of finding and determining location. Time sync is also an important part of satellite communication. They could effectively reimplement GPS or an equivalent location tech with their network but why when a high quality positioning solution already exists. They will be continually syncing time and position data for the orbits of satellites and positions of clients. (stat…

There is a paper out there where someone demonstrates that it would take 1.6% of constellation downlink capacity for StarLink to serve as its own GNSS. As you mention, the GPS network is very high quality, and would only make sense in areas where GPS was undeserving or active denial was expected (and StarLink had the capability to avoid jamming). Edit: I misrecalled. StarLink can provide 10x more precise positioning…

You'd also have to do it, though.

Build it, maintain it, rely on it.

Alternatively you could just embed a cheap GNSS chip and let other people build and maintain it.

> I misrecalled. StarLink can provide 10x more precise positioning than GPS.

GPS can also provide much more precise positioning than it does for consumers. There are encrypted bands used for military, etc with significantly better specs.

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#92

Post by ec109685 »

josephcsible wrote: post #26

It shouldn't count as a vulnerability that you can get root of a device that you have physical possession of. If there's any real vulnerability here, it's that having root of your terminal gives you any extra privileges to the rest of the network.

Curious why an iPhone been susceptible to this type of hack before?

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#93

Post by samstave »

upupandup wrote: post #73
roastedpeacock wrote: post #35

This WIRED article[1] references a release of tools and information about the research on GitHub[2] however it 404s. Hope that is not being censored. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/starlink-internet-dish-hack/ [2] https://github.com/KULeuven-COSIC/Starlink-FI

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#94

Post by jacooper »

roastedpeacock wrote: post #35

This WIRED article[1] references a release of tools and information about the research on GitHub[2] however it 404s. Hope that is not being censored. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/starlink-internet-dish-hack/ [2] https://github.com/KULeuven-COSIC/Starlink-FI

Should've uploaded the repo to IPFS or Radicle.

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#95

Post by debatem1 »

upupandup wrote: post #64
Eriks wrote: post #5

Relevant presentation on DEFCON Media server: https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2030/DEF%20CON%2030%20pre... https://media.defcon.org/DEF%20CON%2030/DEF%20CON%2030%20pre...

[flagged]

In the same way that me turning off secure boot on my desktop means free Netflix for everyone and we should shut down Comcast until there's a fix.

This is a cool attack, but (so far) no more than that. I'd expect that the SpaceX security team is over there putting in some glitch resistant compares at the moment, assuming they haven't already.

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#96

Post by ThrowawayTestr »

14 wrote: post #45
KMnO4 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not without changing microprocessors. Essentially these chips are locked by setting certain flags in memory. Various flags control various peripherals, including a flag to disable read/write access to the firmware. Obviously once you disable access, it’s permanent because you don’t have access to reenable it. This side channel attack takes advantage of a flaw in the actual silicon, where branches can be skipped i…

Xbox 360 had the reset glitch hack where if you powered cycled the chip at the exact right timing you could run unsigned code. It required a small mod chip soldered to some of the smallest points on the motherboard that I have ever soldered. Different versions of the 360 worked better but most worked even if it took a minute or so before the glitched worked and booted into custom firmware. Mine worked really well and…

That's what I was thinking of, the 360 not the Switch.

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#97

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

colechristensen wrote: post #91
toomuchtodo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a paper out there where someone demonstrates that it would take 1.6% of constellation downlink capacity for StarLink to serve as its own GNSS. As you mention, the GPS network is very high quality, and would only make sense in areas where GPS was undeserving or active denial was expected (and StarLink had the capability to avoid jamming). Edit: I misrecalled. StarLink can provide 10x more precise positioning…

You'd also have to do it, though. Build it, maintain it, rely on it. Alternatively you could just embed a cheap GNSS chip and let other people build and maintain it. > I misrecalled. StarLink can provide 10x more precise positioning than GPS. GPS can also provide much more precise positioning than it does for consumers. There are encrypted bands used for military, etc with significantly better specs.

I don't think that's true anymore. iirc, the accurate bands were made public in the 80s

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#98

Post by upupandup »

ck2 wrote: post #60

Pretty sure Russia has physical satellite killer missiles just like US does? Would a nuke in space even work to take out a group of them, maybe even via an EMP surge or are they hardened? Sometimes I wonder if the world would be more peaceful if cellphone networks couldn't work anymore but there would be so much other chaos so guess not.

No post body was provided.

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#99

Post by GormHouj »

mikeytown2 wrote: post #9
GormHouj wrote: post #6

I see a lot of articles that quote the cost for hacking a product or service. I feel like these type of titles undermine the effort that took place. Surely the lab Wouters used had tools and processes that aren't cheap, nor would you consider his expertise inexpensive. I'm not impressed by a PCB board being cheap. Does anyone else feel this way about similar headlines?

Price is a factor for how accessible the hack is. If it requires an expensive FGPA or a lot of AWS time to crack then that makes it less appealing.

Interestingly, either H/N changed the submission title, or the article itself changed their title to reflect the content of the article better. Is there a way I can check which happened in the last few hours?

Re: The hacking of Starlink terminals has begun

#100

Post by y04nn »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #61
colechristensen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the client and the satellite use beam forming. The signal is pointed at you in a relatively narrow beam not broadcast spherically. They have to know where you are to point at you (phased array antennas so electronic not physical pointing)

I'm not too familar with the low-level details of the Starlink network, but in the slides of the talk it's shown that the dish contains a GPS receiver, so isn't it possible that the client tells the satellite its location on first contact?

The GPS is probably used to get the current time and location to orient the dish to the best satellite using ephemeris. Also the accurate time is needed in telecommunications for Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) and maybe they have an internal GPS disciplined oscillator to transmit at precise frequencies.
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