Earlier quoted context omitted.
Better wording, thank you. This includes all workers as not all workers are citizens.
But discrimination comes from people, not companies. Also, indeed, why not work in places where there are no other Indians? It's not like with black people: no one who's not from India may have a slightest idea of a caste to discriminate based on it. AND it will also mean making more money.
Google’s caste-bias problem
271–280 of 291 posts
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#272The number of people in this HN thread without the critical thinking skills to understand that is astounding.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#273The Indian caste system is Google's problem to solve? Let's talk about Google's caste system. There are at least two main castes at Google: The "Googlers" who get all the perks, and the support staff who do all the work and get far fewer perks. The upper caste gets meals, those nifty buses, medical care, etc. The lower caste does not get all those things (I think they get meals, but not in the same cafeteria) and the…
I think what you are describing is class based rather than caste based. Caste is explicitly based on heredity and is unchangeable. The fact that the two classes are made up mostly of different ethnicities is probably caused by a confounding variable, such as different educational opportunities, as well as discrimination of course.
You're right, of course, and that's a valuable distinction to make. Anyone in one class at Google could move to the other and they would be accepted.
> The fact that the two classes are made up mostly of different ethnicities is probably caused by a confounding variable, such as different educational opportunities, as well as discrimination of course.
In California at least the racial component is pretty clearly due to history: The Spanish took CA from the Indians, and then we took it from the Spanish (and now the Latinos are gradually taking it back in a largely peaceful demographic transition.) Throughout the state, even in the most progressive enclaves, there's this racial/class system. (Come to think of it, would that count as a caste system?)
To me the weird thing isn't that progressives don't want to hang out with "the help". That's hypocritical but unsurprising. The thing I find strange is when other nationalities/ethnicities come into the picture and they slot into the system in different classes.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to put up with it. Lots of great companies great out there that create a safe space for normal adults like you and I. Vote with your feet and leave.
> Vote with your feet and leave Would you say the same thing to someone facing racism at work? To Oliver Brown?
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#275How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Asians don’t have a representation issue in education. When Jews were being discriminated against they were nowhere near a majority of the student population or squeezing out the representation of other groups. If you don’t think representation matters then all of this will seem very silly to you.
Filipinos are hugely underrepresented in elite US schools, and we are using racial quotas to make the problem worse. > When Jews were being discriminated against they were nowhere near a majority of the student population or squeezing out the representation of other groups. So like, it wasn't okay to discriminate against Jews because there weren't that many of them in absolute terms, but it's ok to discriminate again…
Are you really trying to grapple with the problem here, or is it as simple to you as “we should never take steps to affirmatively correct past racial injustices”? Your deep concern with Jews being treated too well makes me suspect you aren’t arguing from a genuine place of concern about injustice, but carelessly lobbing white supremacist talking points. They would indeed argue that we need to restrict Jewish admissions because Jews are replacing “true whites” in Universities.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's wild to me how much of right wing rhetoric on Hacker News is portrayed as "simply how it is" and "activist logic" is portrayed as always wrong, a failure, and counter-productive. None of the situations described in the parent has ever happened. Nor do any of the scientific studies agree with the positions above that are implied to be facts. However, because it is written dispassionately (even condescendingly) th…
Even wilder to call it right-wing, given that I'm a moderate leftist in a social democracy (western Europe). Makes me pretty close to a "commie". Pushing back against government overreach is now also right-wing, as is defending free speech. But hey, hard to argue with California logic where the top 1% earners of the world working for harmful neoliberal companies spend their time telling themselves they are victims an…
It is not shocking to me that you can't understand the difference while talking about the things you talk about.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
Filipinos are hugely underrepresented in elite US schools, and we are using racial quotas to make the problem worse. > When Jews were being discriminated against they were nowhere near a majority of the student population or squeezing out the representation of other groups. So like, it wasn't okay to discriminate against Jews because there weren't that many of them in absolute terms, but it's ok to discriminate again…
Filipinos do not have the same history in the USA as Black Americans. If there is an anti-Filipino bias then I’m all for correcting it. Are Filipinos disproportionately filling our prison system? Were their ancestors enslaved? Do they have social networks where nobody in their entire network has gone to college? Are you really trying to grapple with the problem here, or is it as simple to you as “we should never take…
I thought we were talking about why racial quotas for Asian people were good, not some other topic.
Filipinos' ancestors were placed in human zoos in America in the 1900s. After the Japanese surrender in World War II, Americans continued bombing their villages. The US has bankrolled a dynasty of looters who have overseen the decline of the country in the postwar period and, recently, the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent people flimsily accused of being affiliated with organized crime.
A lot of this is fairly typical of the US's treatment of any country where the US fought a war between World War II and the Vietnam War or any country where the US has had a preferred political party, so I don't have any particular argument for correcting injustices carried out by the US against Filipinos that does not also apply to a slight majority of South American countries. We do not currently have a program of racial quotas for South Americans though.
> Are you really trying to grapple with the problem here, or is it as simple to you as “we should never take steps to affirmatively correct past racial injustices”?
Perhaps it would help if you could reply to what I wrote, and not to what I did not write?
> Your deep concern with Jews being treated too well makes me suspect you aren’t arguing from a genuine place of concern about injustice, but carelessly lobbing white supremacist talking points.
Maybe you're thinking of some other comment you read elsewhere? I'm honestly not sure what to say. Maybe I could randomly impugn your motives as a proponent of the reinstatement of Japanese internment or whatever, if this is your preferred way to chat with people, and you are trying to show me how you would like to be treated.
To be clear, I am not concerned with Jews being treated too well. Jews seem to be treated appropriately now, as far as US college admissions go. They were treated unfairly in the past. We rightly see the way they were treated in the past as an injustice. Why do we not see it as an injustice when we apply the same rules to different minorities? That is the question I originally posed. So far you chose to reply to "It was wrong to do discriminate against Jews. Why is it right to discriminate against Filipinos?" by calling me a white supremacist.
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#279I always find it funny how there are massive east asian only groups in all major corporate entities. This is not diversity, this is racism. Nice work FANG.
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Flamewar and ideological battle are what this site is for, and destroy what it is for. Please don't create accounts to do those things with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32425607 .
Re: Google’s caste-bias problem
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines. Flamewar and ideological battle are what this site is for, and destroy what it is for. Please don't create accounts to do those things with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32425607 .
What? This is a very real subject. Have you worked at a FANG company and been to any lunch room?
This has zero to do with demographics at companies or any of the other topics you've been breaking HN's rules about.