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Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

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Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#241

Post by sneed-oil »

JohnHaugeland wrote: post #198
clippablematt wrote: post #60

Ah yes, arrest developers of open source privacy code and blame them for North Korea money laundering rather than going after the people actually committing crimes. Sounds about right. Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right! Sorry that it makes the polices job harder, but our rights are more important. And didn’t we go through all this already in the 90s? Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers? This…

This isn't open source privacy code. Whether or not someone else does something bad with it isn't relevant. Until you can face what it really is, you aren't going to come to terms with what's happening. This is like making unlicensed guns that don't follow safety or tracking regulations, then complaining "but I'm not the burglar, I didn't kill anyone" when you get shut down. This is and always has been the obvious ex…

> you don't actually legally have the right to hide your financial transactions besides

Maybe you don't, but that's what happens by default when using cash

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#242

Post by yokem55 »

louwrentius wrote: post #74

He wasn’t just developing software, he seems to also been involved with operating the Tornado mixer service, thus enabling / facilitating money laundering and evasion of sanctions.

The 'service' is a contract on the chain. It exists and operates because thousands of other people are running nodes that run that chain. It still works today if you access the static front end website via ipfs or have a local clone of it or manually build and submit the transactions via your own local node.

So, once deployed, there really isn't anything to 'run' in order for it to continue.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#243

Post by implements »

desindol wrote: post #223
clippablematt wrote: post #60

Ah yes, arrest developers of open source privacy code and blame them for North Korea money laundering rather than going after the people actually committing crimes. Sounds about right. Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right! Sorry that it makes the polices job harder, but our rights are more important. And didn’t we go through all this already in the 90s? Are we now gonna start arresting all cryptographers? This…

Privacy is a human right? citation needed.

(From Wikipedia) The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States ensures that "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

(Also) Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

It’s generally understood that without privacy people are effectively disenfranchised politically, because any expression of an contentious opinion or association with subversive or dissident thinkers becomes potentially so harmful that wise people would avoid both and keep almost entirely to themselves or family.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#244

Post by codehalo »

diogenes1 wrote: post #170
dannyw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralization really is starting to matter. It's a wake up call for a lot of developers in this space, that pragmatic shortcuts (e.g. centralized RPCs, centralized stablecoins like USDC) have disadvantages that may no longer outweigh the advantages.

true. none of smart contract blockchains today are actually a practical tool till lightclients that run on smartphones are mainstream

The problem is that Apple and Google have a kill switch.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#245

Post by game-of-throws »

afavour wrote: post #187
game-of-throws wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were true, it would be so easy for them to swing public opinion in their favor by saying so. Headline: Arrest of developer with suspected ties to North Korean money laundering Body: He has also previously contributed to Tornado Cash. But all we know is what they decided to tell us... he's a developer of privacy tech. If the facts change, I'll change my mind.

Usually when there’s an ongoing investigation the default is for police to not release too much information to avoid jeopardising the investigation, then release all the info when the investigation is complete. It’s frustrating and often a principle that’s applied too broadly, but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

I agree they usually withhold details of the case. But I don't think they would flat-out lie about the charges being brought.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#246

Post by npc54321 »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #214
threeseed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than going after the people actually committing crimes Actually they go after the people committing the crime AND those facilitating it. > Privacy is not a crime, it’s a human right (a) Not a human right, (b) not enshrined in any country's law, (c) does not absolve illegal behaviour.

Ah, the famed “Hacker” News users advocating for the Big State and against privacy.

No post body was provided.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#247

Post by nootropicat »

diogenes1 wrote: post #170
dannyw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralization really is starting to matter. It's a wake up call for a lot of developers in this space, that pragmatic shortcuts (e.g. centralized RPCs, centralized stablecoins like USDC) have disadvantages that may no longer outweigh the advantages.

true. none of smart contract blockchains today are actually a practical tool till lightclients that run on smartphones are mainstream

I don't think they are going to ever be mainstream. Even a lightnode that only downloads headers is going to eat up battery fast. If a centralized service works for you, what's the point? What's necessary is to allow actually persecuted people to run nodes on their computers.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#248

Post by yokem55 »

codehalo wrote: post #244
diogenes1 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true. none of smart contract blockchains today are actually a practical tool till lightclients that run on smartphones are mainstream

The problem is that Apple and Google have a kill switch.

The light clients that the parent envisions could potentially run entirely in javascript within a browser. No app store needed unless the browser engines start blacklisting bits of js.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#249

Post by dragonwriter »

game-of-throws wrote: post #245
afavour wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually when there’s an ongoing investigation the default is for police to not release too much information to avoid jeopardising the investigation, then release all the info when the investigation is complete. It’s frustrating and often a principle that’s applied too broadly, but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

I agree they usually withhold details of the case. But I don't think they would flat-out lie about the charges being brought.

> I agree they usually withhold details of the case. But I don't think they would flat-out lie about the charges being brought.

“With suspected ties to X“ isn't necessarily an element of the charges being brought. And the police can and do lie (or state “suspicion” on a very flimsy basis) when making public announcements related to arrests, and headlines often credulously repeat police spin rather than being grounded in facts.

While this tends to get the most attention (and still then not enough for the press to change) around police spin and media coverage related to police shootings, it is true far beyond that.

Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash

#250

Post by LightG »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #229
rdbell wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk’s specialty is selling vaporware and big promises. Satoshi released working software without prior announcements and did hardly anything to promote it. I don’t know how anyone really thinks Elon could be Satoshi.

Dude created a company that built a reusable rocket and you accuse him of selling vaporware.

Your comment doesn't negate the vaporware comment.
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