one of the most shameful moments in digital human rights after the arrest of pgp creator in 1993. Code is speech, it is not a weapon. Banning maths is fascist
Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
131–140 of 827 posts
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#132I understand why they arrested him but it doesn't seem like he did anything thats illegal so it will be interesting to see what charge they bring or how they intend to differentiate between tornado cash and HSBC laundering money for cartels.
He created and presumably deployed a service that facilitates illegal money laundering. From what I have heard approximately 20% of the volume is of coins are known to come from crime. That far exceeds the threshold for which an organization must take steps to try to prevent these things.
It might not have been possible change the existing deployed contracts, or to shut the service down entirely (I’m not actually sure what governance features if any the core contracts have), but there are things that could have been done nevertheless, like shutting down the website that provided a convenient front end.
Basically, unless he can show that he genuinely did not know that the service was laundering illegal funds on a large scale, or that he did everything in his power to stop this use, he is probably screwed. This is especially true if he profits in any way from the operation of TC, like if he was operating any relay nodes that took a fee for funding anonymous withdrawals.
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
The way I read that, large anonymous cash transactions in a non-professional capacity are still fine? Could I not gift somebody a million cash euros or buy a home with cash?
IIRC you can't buy a house anonymously in Netherlands, no matter if you pay with cash or not, you'd be required to register the transfer of ownership in the cadastral system, and any real estate deals must be with a written contract that identifies both parties. And I believe the NL tax reporting for large gifts also requires you to identify the donor. In essence, the limitation is not on the method of payment but on…
I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. Typically all large transactions get auto reported to the financial intelligence unit, with the tax man getting access to the data set as well. If paid via crypto they'd find out when the recipient cashes out, forcing him/her to do source of funds.
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
Satoshi has demonstrated inhuman levels of restraint. The only explanation is that he is dead. The others are that he is not human, or that it's a committee defying Hanlon's razor: i.e. not governed by stupidity like most human affairs, but malice. Both are equally improbable.
My pet theory is that he's just one of the myriad of early developers who made hundreds of millions from crypto and keep relatively private. At that point he'd have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by revealing himself.
Basically contribution laundering, by blending in with the first 10 or so contributors and killing off his old persona he would get most of the benefits but still not get targeted as the inventor of bitcoin.
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#135Wow, just wow. Am i alone in thinking this is not going to fly if all he did was write some software that helps with your financial anonymity? There must be more. Perhaps he also deployed it? That would be a different story. The article is quite murky in that regard. Perhaps they don't know yet. In there is an interesting paragraph explaining what Tornado Cash is: … The ( criminal ) origin of the cryptocurrencies is…
Satoshi has demonstrated inhuman levels of restraint. The only explanation is that he is dead. The others are that he is not human, or that it's a committee defying Hanlon's razor: i.e. not governed by stupidity like most human affairs, but malice. Both are equally improbable.
> The only explanation is that he is dead.
He might be dead but someone has control of his keys & logins as they used his accounts to defend Dorian Nakamoto.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/03/06/bitcoin-...
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#136one of the most shameful moments in digital human rights after the arrest of pgp creator in 1993. Code is speech, it is not a weapon. Banning maths is fascist
even more shameful is the tone of conversation regarding this in internet forums now vs in 1993. How the hell can you be pro arrest of developers
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Although Bitcoin is resistant to the "charismatic leader" problem, his second coming would give him incredible fame, following but also personal danger. Yet I do not think any human would resist a moment in the spotlight, if not to renounce its child and its current direction.
I think someone who believes that it will bring certain death could resist. It wouldn't surprise me if he destroyed his private keys to prevent himself from ever succumbing to the temptation. Those coins are of little value when using any of them would kick off a race to track you down and kidnap you with the intention of rubber-hosing the key out of you before going short on bitcoin. Having a secret in your head tha…
You are overestimating the odds of that happening.
Vitalik Buterin is widely known, travels all the time to many countries, and although he might not be as rich as satoshi, still owns like a billion in crypto.
Yet he hasn't been kidnapped.
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#138How many people listed in the Panama papers have been arrested? Their assets seized? Fines? Zero. London's "the city" is pretty much one giant laundering operation for Saudi and Russian dirty money. Money laundering, monetary privacy, wealth obfuscation is perfectly fine. It only becomes an issue when it becomes accessible to us simple minded folks too. The urgency to stop this tech really tells the tale. Or in other…
Did you look it up or are you just spouting what ever you can dream up to fit your argument? Lots of people all over the world have been arrested based on the panama papers.
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is the latter case. How is privacy not a legitimate use case? > According the to article, 14% of money moved through the mixer was of criminal origin. I’m pretty sure the majority of duffel bags sold in cartel controlled areas of Mexico are used to transport drugs or drug money, that doesn’t mean selling them should be a crime.
>I’m pretty sure the majority I'm pretty sure that's not true. 1-1 we tied :) And again , not equivalent. If local duffel bag makers knew duffel bags were used significantly for crime, and added features to facilitate crime, and ignored laws requiring tracking criminals (which is what money processors have to follow), then the duffel bag maker would be criminally liable. In the cast at hand, the company processes the…
Source - ChrisLemont
get off your high horse, use of tornado cash is quite common among crypto natives, otherwise it's like broadcasting your pepsi purchases on instagram
Re: Arrest of suspected developer of Tornado Cash
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
IIRC you can't buy a house anonymously in Netherlands, no matter if you pay with cash or not, you'd be required to register the transfer of ownership in the cadastral system, and any real estate deals must be with a written contract that identifies both parties. And I believe the NL tax reporting for large gifts also requires you to identify the donor. In essence, the limitation is not on the method of payment but on…
I doubt you could buy a house anonymously anywhere in the west. Typically all large transactions get auto reported to the financial intelligence unit, with the tax man getting access to the data set as well. If paid via crypto they'd find out when the recipient cashes out, forcing him/her to do source of funds.
At least in the US, house purchases are by default anonymous. The only reason I know the sellers of my house is because they put in their trust name their full legal names.
Last time I sold a house, the only reason I met with the buyer directly was because I didn't use an agent for the sale.