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Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

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Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#101

Post by matthewmacleod »

CJefferson wrote: post #91
jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

You seem to have rapidly skipped over the exact thing no-one complains about -- a take-home piece of work paid at a reasonable rate. You just claimed people would complain. I've done exactly this, and everyone seemed happy.

This rules out anybody who isn’t permitted to do that by their existing contract (which is the majority of people depending on jurisdiction) and still disadvantages people who are time-poor. It’s not much of a silver bullet.

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#102

Post by gwd »

water8 wrote: post #6
usgroup wrote: post #4

That sort of thing happens —- try and be really clear what you expect back if you do an assignment. Put it on an email. Otherwise I’d write to them and tell them that you have an issue. Chase a bit, presumably you don’t know the reason for the ghosting. Having said that they could be ghosting you because they are assholes. There are unfortunately a lot of inconsiderate assholes in tech.

There’s also a lot of people that think the world owes them something. Why do they owe you a response? OP agreed to do an assignment did but did they get the company to agree to call them back on a set date? A good job is like a hot girl they don’t have time to text back all the rejects

> A good job is like a hot girl they don’t have time to text back all the rejects

"Not texting back" would be the equivalent of a company simply not following up after you'd submitted your resume; I'm sure OP wouldn't have complained about that. This is more like, the girl texts you back, said, "I'll consider going on a date with you if you do this 8-hour thing for me", you did the 8-hour thing, and then she didn't contact you after that -- yes, that's basic failure of decency.

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#103

Post by stephencanon »

CJefferson wrote: post #91
jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

You seem to have rapidly skipped over the exact thing no-one complains about -- a take-home piece of work paid at a reasonable rate. You just claimed people would complain. I've done exactly this, and everyone seemed happy.

The only real issue with this one is that many folks you might want to hire are prevented from doing outside piecework like this by their contract with their current employer. That's not a dealbreaker, it just means that you either don't hire those folks, or you have two systems available.

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#104

Post by birracerveza »

Absolutely. The worst thing is they start small and assign to you increasingly complex tasks the more you progress, with wild excuses to justify it. The sunk cost fallacy is real.

Happened to me once. The best thing is I explicitly told them beforehand I had little time to spare for home assignments. I got rejected after almost a week worth of work total. I should have billed them...

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#105

Post by kasey_junk »

CJefferson wrote: post #91
jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

You seem to have rapidly skipped over the exact thing no-one complains about -- a take-home piece of work paid at a reasonable rate. You just claimed people would complain. I've done exactly this, and everyone seemed happy.

Many states in the US don’t have the moonlighting protections that California does. A paid assignment outside of their main employer will very frequently will be basis for dismissal, or at least will demand prior notification.

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#106

Post by geraldyo »

CJefferson wrote: post #91
jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

You seem to have rapidly skipped over the exact thing no-one complains about -- a take-home piece of work paid at a reasonable rate. You just claimed people would complain. I've done exactly this, and everyone seemed happy.

Right??

"The solution is this, but I'm SURE people wouldn't like it, so you all are complaining too much"

What was the rate you chose?

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#107

Post by sneak »

yitchelle wrote: post #32
jjgreen wrote: post #19

For a 2015 ML job I applied for: | We are wondering if you would like to attempt our code challenge (C/C++ or | Python). It is a Computer Vision problem which we think can be solved in | about 8 hours. I'm afraid I wouldn't, 8 hours is far too much for a interview problem. However, thanks for considering my application.

Alternatively, you could say..."for my time spent after the 1st hour, I will charge you $200/hour. Are we good to proceed"

For someone skilled at doing ML, your hourly contract rate is about 60% too low.

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#108

Post by wikfwikf »

jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

'The HN gestalt' seems to mean that you have taken comments by completely different people with different preferences and synthesized them as though they were all said by the same person?

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#109

Post by gwd »

brutusborn wrote: post #22
mathverse wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? It is a common courtesy to at least reply with a generic email.

You're both right: noone is 'owed' a response but ghosting is still discourteous.

Nobody is owed a response to the initial job application. After you've asked them to invest significant time doing something, you better believe you owe them a basic, "Thank you for your submission; we've decided not to move forward &c".

Re: Tell HN: Unpaid home assignments are not ok

#110

Post by lapcat »

jerf wrote: post #76

According to the HN gestalt, you shouldn't do a whiteboard interview because that's too unrealistic because nobody programs on a whiteboard, you shouldn't expect programmers to code with their laptop in an interview because that's too much pressure and also unrealistic, you shouldn't expect programmers to be willing to do a take home exam because that's too much work without money (and if people did pay, the complain…

> Apparently the approved HN method is to arrange the resumes on a dartboard, throw darts at it, and commit up front to hiring whoever you hit

AFAICT the null hypothesis has yet to be disproven in tech hiring.

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