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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#281

Post by espadrine »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #271
espadrine wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one knows where to put the trash They do, though. That is where the “trash” is. They have become so adept at it, they made a museum out of one facility[0]. Two misconceptions that benefit from being clarified: 1. There is very little waste for the amount of energy produced. If we only used nuclear, it would amount for 40 grams per person per year[1]. 2. The waste is not trash, it is extremely valuable. It was va…

You're talking about fuel, and we're talking about trash. From refinement to the reactor and spent fuel processing, the nuclear power industry generates a huge amount of trash that is low-grade radioactive and thus cannot be just dumped in a landfill. The nuclear industry has had over seventy years to get their act together regarding fuel recycling. They'd rather just dump it into pools on-site because it's cheapest…

What is the kill count for this low-grade radioactive “trash” per TJ? What is the volume per TJ?

The coal industry has convinced the ecologists to require titanic standards from literally every green energy source, especially the one with the most stable output.

> Here's an idea: let's spend the money on wind turbine blade, battery, and solar panel repurposing and recycling instead.

I am into doing that, AND the nuclear stuff. No need to tie an anchor to our ankle while we try to metaphorically swim back to the surface.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#282

Post by xemdetia »

philjohn wrote: post #104
rr888 wrote: post #47

Its fascinating that electricity is really the biggest cost of computing. I put a server in my house which was supposed to save money, but actually the electricity cost was something I hadn't thought of and really adds up. esp when the AC has to run to remove the extra heat. So much old hardware out there but its going to get junked as new hw is more efficient.

This is why for my home server I didn't get second hand servers but built the following in a 2U case that fits in my network closet: Asrock Rack c246 WSI (Mini ITX workstation board) 32GB DDR4 ECC Udimms (16GB x2) Core i3 9100T (25w, low power 4 core part, supports ECC, and quicksync) 6 IronWolf 4TB NAS drives The 6 drives are in RaidZ2 so give 16TB usable space, and at full pelt the max power consumption is 60W for…

My favourite 'home server' board for a while was J3160DC-ITX, which runs at 6W TDP and runs off a 12V brick.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#283

Post by mistrial9 »

lillecarl wrote: post #265
iforgotpassword wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use a "server" server, unless you really need that. Use a desktop from a few years ago, from some oem who advertises power efficiency. Stuff it full of hdds and ram. I've made very good experiences with Fujitsu. The power consumption figures they publish in their energy consumption white papers has been matching my measurements very well, so you can check ebay for used machines that match your performance/price…

This is the way. You don't need high density at home (usually) so don't pay the price for it. Get a mobo with ECC ram that fits an ATX case if you want server grade stuff. If you don't use stupid tech like VMware it won't eat your resources either (not that VMware is bad in a datacenter, but it is quite resource hungry in comparison to virt-manager or Proxmox). I mean unless databases or Java are your favorite things…

> mobo with ECC ram that fits an ATX case

yes, and careful choice of graphics card; GPU computing is special purpose and can be costly in an urban area

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#284

Post by lillecarl »

mistrial9 wrote: post #283
lillecarl wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the way. You don't need high density at home (usually) so don't pay the price for it. Get a mobo with ECC ram that fits an ATX case if you want server grade stuff. If you don't use stupid tech like VMware it won't eat your resources either (not that VMware is bad in a datacenter, but it is quite resource hungry in comparison to virt-manager or Proxmox). I mean unless databases or Java are your favorite things…

> mobo with ECC ram that fits an ATX case yes, and careful choice of graphics card; GPU computing is special purpose and can be costly in an urban area

Indeed, I don't know how dense the megascalers build, it looks less dense than what I see at work compared to the few videos that are out there.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#285

Post by rz2k »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #172
rr888 wrote: post #47

Its fascinating that electricity is really the biggest cost of computing. I put a server in my house which was supposed to save money, but actually the electricity cost was something I hadn't thought of and really adds up. esp when the AC has to run to remove the extra heat. So much old hardware out there but its going to get junked as new hw is more efficient.

Don't use a "server" server, unless you really need that. Use a desktop from a few years ago, from some oem who advertises power efficiency. Stuff it full of hdds and ram. I've made very good experiences with Fujitsu. The power consumption figures they publish in their energy consumption white papers has been matching my measurements very well, so you can check ebay for used machines that match your performance/price…

Take a look at the Tiny Mini Micro[1] project from Serve the Home for some very enthusiastic reviews of small 1 liter-sized desktop computers from Lenovo, Dell, and HP. I use a tiny Lenovo that's been rock solid, and uses almost no power.

[1] https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimic...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#286

Post by psy-q »

npteljes wrote: post #275
iforgotpassword wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't use a "server" server, unless you really need that. Use a desktop from a few years ago, from some oem who advertises power efficiency. Stuff it full of hdds and ram. I've made very good experiences with Fujitsu. The power consumption figures they publish in their energy consumption white papers has been matching my measurements very well, so you can check ebay for used machines that match your performance/price…

Same conclusion here. Initially I used an old notebook with USB cases for full-size HDDs, nowadays it'n an older desktop PC in a midi tower, with some extra memory and HDDs. Idle power is <20W, which is most of the time. I really wanted a proper server for the cool factor, but it's just so expensive to maintain.

Were there significant downsides to the laptop solution?

I have a similar setup with a NUC mounting storage from a small ARM-powered NAS, but I was thinking of changing this to an old ThinkPad X230 with just internal storage and offsite backup.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#287

Post by doikor »

ztrww wrote: post #124
jansan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 0.2% of the electricity is generated from oil in Finland. But Finland produces a good quarter of its electricity from nuclear power. Maybe that makes a difference?

It’s hard to export electricity from Finland due to it’s geographic location and it’s main connections are with Sweden where electricity is also much cheaper than in continental Europe.

And the national grids of Sweden and Norway can't really keep up with the current load. The price of electricity up north is dirt cheap due to lots of hydro but the grid just can't get it to where the people are (south). So you get crazy 100x price differences between the two ends of the countries.

This is also why both Sweden and Norway want to invest into new transfer lines to northern Finland as the national grid of Finland is actually in good enough shape that any electricity you get to any part of it can actually be sold to a customer anywhere in the country. This is why Finland is a single price zone when both Sweden and Norway are split into multiple zones (4 and 5)

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#288

Post by difflens »

rr888 wrote: post #47

Its fascinating that electricity is really the biggest cost of computing. I put a server in my house which was supposed to save money, but actually the electricity cost was something I hadn't thought of and really adds up. esp when the AC has to run to remove the extra heat. So much old hardware out there but its going to get junked as new hw is more efficient.

I've been wondering over the past few months if we can build a "public" cloud. I have some old machines gathering dust, I'm sure others do too. Is it feasible to build an ad-hoc network of such computers where the compute power is rented out. For ex: I can connect my old lenovo i5 laptop to this network for 6hrs a day and charge 1.2x my electricy cost. Sort of like on demand EC2 instances, but backed by torrent like tech. It'd make computers pay for themselves over time

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#290

Post by kappuchino »

rr888 wrote: post #47

Its fascinating that electricity is really the biggest cost of computing. I put a server in my house which was supposed to save money, but actually the electricity cost was something I hadn't thought of and really adds up. esp when the AC has to run to remove the extra heat. So much old hardware out there but its going to get junked as new hw is more efficient.

In order to keep my eletricity bill for a running system in my apartment to then minimum I researched the specs & prices from the "The Power Consumption Database"[1] and found an intel nuc running on 5watts idle. Thats the same class of power consumption of a raspi 4 8GB, but easier to maintain. Now I'm waiting for my a Coral TPU USB-Accelarator to keep the peak consumption down for some recognition tasks in homeassistant.

[1]http://www.tpcdb.com/list.php?type=13

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