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PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

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Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#11

Post by baobob »

barathr wrote: post #10
syrrim wrote: post #9

>PGPP does not support traditional phone calling/SMS and doesn’t include a phone number. Instead we recommend that users install and use more secure apps such as Signal and Matrix for voice and video. Doesn't signal require a phone number to use? Or did they fix that?

It does, but you can use any number, even a VoIP number. (And you can connect to the VoIP provider with PGPP Relay enabled.)

Just a little feedback (worth a dime or a damn, you decide), but I come here for the comments first to judge whether clicking the link is worthwhile. The problem discussed in the parent comments would completely rule me out as a user: solving privacy is not a technical problem, it has always been a usability problem. This is primarily why your namesake failed - variations on wizardry that ultimately result in a user still having to jump through hoops to accomplish simple tasks sounds like the same thing all over again to me

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#12

Post by throwaway743 »

Definitely want to try this, but the full feature cost is much more than my monthly phone bill. Does this route through a server at all (overhead costs) or is everything contained locally? Trying to understand the level of rationale for such a cost.

If it's contained locally, it's likely you could make more in volume than with a higher price.

Also, it's deceptive/leaves a bad taste in mouth with having the Play Store show an "Install" button rather than purchase, only to open the app to a paywall. Using this dark pattern could end up hurting user perception/the app's reviews.

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#15

Post by unknownaccount »

barathr wrote: post #8
nibbleshifter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What payment methods are available, and what data do you collect for billing? Could I pick up an eSIM compatible Android tomorrow for cash at the local pawn shop, and get service using your system without handing over anything identifiable?

Right now we use Stripe (mostly because it's the the most rock solid choice for payments) -- we don't ask for name or email, though of course Stripe could know that as a card processor. But our approach goes back to decoupling human identity from network identity -- what that payment says is that the holder of that card is a subscriber of the service but not, for example, what network ID you got.

Why not accept cryptocurrency?

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#16

Post by max-b »

throwaway743 wrote: post #12

Definitely want to try this, but the full feature cost is much more than my monthly phone bill. Does this route through a server at all (overhead costs) or is everything contained locally? Trying to understand the level of rationale for such a cost. If it's contained locally, it's likely you could make more in volume than with a higher price. Also, it's deceptive/leaves a bad taste in mouth with having the Play Store…

The $5/month price is for the Relay functionality which provides the 2-hop traffic tunneling. I'm guessing(?) that's not more than your monthly phone bill?

The $90/month price is for unlimited mobile data, so it would in theory replace your phone bill entirely.

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#17

Post by prschmitt »

JediPig wrote: post #14

anything funded by gov is going to have a backdoor... this is funded by Princeton / Gov... So no, make a different solution.

This was a research project that we undertook while at our respective universities. We decided to spin it out as we think it's useful. We are not funded by the government or Princeton (while Princeton owns the IP).

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#18

Post by barathr »

baobob wrote: post #11
barathr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, but you can use any number, even a VoIP number. (And you can connect to the VoIP provider with PGPP Relay enabled.)

Just a little feedback (worth a dime or a damn, you decide), but I come here for the comments first to judge whether clicking the link is worthwhile. The problem discussed in the parent comments would completely rule me out as a user: solving privacy is not a technical problem, it has always been a usability problem. This is primarily why your namesake failed - variations on wizardry that ultimately result in a user…

I tend to not take this as a black and white matter -- I see privacy as a layered problem -- at multiple network/software layers -- and as a policy and user behavior question. No single response, whether user education, policy, technology, etc. can perfectly solve something as complex and nebulous as privacy. (It gets worse when we think about the contextual nature of privacy -- that what we want out of it depends on the parties involved, even the time of day.)

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#19

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

barathr wrote: post #8
nibbleshifter wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What payment methods are available, and what data do you collect for billing? Could I pick up an eSIM compatible Android tomorrow for cash at the local pawn shop, and get service using your system without handing over anything identifiable?

Right now we use Stripe (mostly because it's the the most rock solid choice for payments) -- we don't ask for name or email, though of course Stripe could know that as a card processor. But our approach goes back to decoupling human identity from network identity -- what that payment says is that the holder of that card is a subscriber of the service but not, for example, what network ID you got.

Thanks for working on this, I can't wait to give you my money.

It seems like you're misreading a key market segment if you don't offer cryptocurrency payments (particularly Monero).

Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch

#20

Post by barathr »

throwaway743 wrote: post #12

Definitely want to try this, but the full feature cost is much more than my monthly phone bill. Does this route through a server at all (overhead costs) or is everything contained locally? Trying to understand the level of rationale for such a cost. If it's contained locally, it's likely you could make more in volume than with a higher price. Also, it's deceptive/leaves a bad taste in mouth with having the Play Store…

Hmm, thanks for that feedback. I think (hope?) people wouldn't think that service like this was free (the prices reflect the costs). We say pretty clearly on our site what the prices are and are trying to be upfront. It's true that the payment isn't handled by Google but by Stripe, so you aren't buying it on the Play Store, but that's because it's a network service, something that isn't under Google's normal payment processing.
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