PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
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Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#2Just wanted to say hi – I’m one of the co-founders of this effort and would love to answer any questions or discuss further.
Also wanted to add, since this is a common question: does PGPP protect all identifiers or just some? As with most privacy systems, just some. Our aim is twofold: 1) to decouple a user's human identity from their network identities (mobile and Internet) and 2) randomize their network identities. We view decoupling as pretty fundamental to practical privacy -- to decouple who you are from what you do. Who you are in the context of the network is your human identity, often associated with the main point of contact you have with the network and billing -- your subscription and SIM, your broadband connection and its IP address and your home address, etc. That information has been used as the key upon which datasets can be attached. The goal then is to decouple across entities -- the different parties who have data -- and across uses -- the different mechanisms of a network protocol, such as authentication and connectivity.
Other identifiers such as hardware identifiers aren't inherently attached to a person and aren't always used by networks, but even when they are, removing them is insufficient -- as our colleagues at UCSD found in recent work, phones can be identified at the PHY, without even using a unique hardware identifier.
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#3So what happens when the major mobile networks decide to stop allowing PGPP to use their network?
I seen this happen before. I used to use the "Private Buyer" Payment service to anonymously pay for services privately. They had issues with payment processors preventing their payments from going through. I gather largely due to the privacy aspects of the service. That was in the early 2000 and I think the went out of business after 3-5 years.
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#4So what happens when the major mobile networks decide to stop allowing PGPP to use their network? I seen this happen before. I used to use the "Private Buyer" Payment service to anonymously pay for services privately. They had issues with payment processors preventing their payments from going through. I gather largely due to the privacy aspects of the service. That was in the early 2000 and I think the went out of b…
It's true, they could. The one thing that is perhaps helping at this moment is that they've come under scrutiny for their (bad) privacy practices -- both from the media and from the FCC. Ultimately we see privacy as a layered problem, from a technological standpoint and a social standpoint -- we need layers of protection across the network and software stack and also a combination of policy, technology, and user behavioral changes.
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#5Just wanted to say hi – I’m one of the co-founders of this effort and would love to answer any questions or discuss further. Also wanted to add, since this is a common question: does PGPP protect all identifiers or just some? As with most privacy systems, just some. Our aim is twofold: 1) to decouple a user's human identity from their network identities (mobile and Internet) and 2) randomize their network identities.…
Does this also randomize the IMEI, or just the IMSI?
Seems like if the same IMEI shows up over and over again with a different rotating IMSI then the jig is up.
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#6Just wanted to say hi – I’m one of the co-founders of this effort and would love to answer any questions or discuss further. Also wanted to add, since this is a common question: does PGPP protect all identifiers or just some? As with most privacy systems, just some. Our aim is twofold: 1) to decouple a user's human identity from their network identities (mobile and Internet) and 2) randomize their network identities.…
Does this also randomize the IMEI, or just the IMSI? Seems like if the same IMEI shows up over and over again with a different rotating IMSI then the jig is up.
The IMSI. We don't do anything with the IMEI ourselves (it's in the category of hardware identifiers that I'm mentioning above). Some phones can change them when rooted, some can't. The network attach process doesn't use the IMEI inherently by spec, but some cell cores can query for it (for example, to block stolen phones). It's not a network identifier, and strange things sometimes happen with the IMEI that don't even affect connectivity -- https://www.androidauthority.com/duplicate-imei-vivo-india-1...
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#7Just wanted to say hi – I’m one of the co-founders of this effort and would love to answer any questions or discuss further. Also wanted to add, since this is a common question: does PGPP protect all identifiers or just some? As with most privacy systems, just some. Our aim is twofold: 1) to decouple a user's human identity from their network identities (mobile and Internet) and 2) randomize their network identities.…
What payment methods are available, and what data do you collect for billing?
Could I pick up an eSIM compatible Android tomorrow for cash at the local pawn shop, and get service using your system without handing over anything identifiable?
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#8Just wanted to say hi – I’m one of the co-founders of this effort and would love to answer any questions or discuss further. Also wanted to add, since this is a common question: does PGPP protect all identifiers or just some? As with most privacy systems, just some. Our aim is twofold: 1) to decouple a user's human identity from their network identities (mobile and Internet) and 2) randomize their network identities.…
What payment methods are available, and what data do you collect for billing? Could I pick up an eSIM compatible Android tomorrow for cash at the local pawn shop, and get service using your system without handing over anything identifiable?
Right now we use Stripe (mostly because it's the the most rock solid choice for payments) -- we don't ask for name or email, though of course Stripe could know that as a card processor. But our approach goes back to decoupling human identity from network identity -- what that payment says is that the holder of that card is a subscriber of the service but not, for example, what network ID you got.
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#9>PGPP does not support traditional phone calling/SMS and doesn’t include a phone number. Instead we recommend that users install and use more secure apps such as Signal and Matrix for voice and video.
Doesn't signal require a phone number to use? Or did they fix that?
Re: PGPP (Pretty Good Phone Privacy) Beta Launch
#10>PGPP does not support traditional phone calling/SMS and doesn’t include a phone number. Instead we recommend that users install and use more secure apps such as Signal and Matrix for voice and video. Doesn't signal require a phone number to use? Or did they fix that?
It does, but you can use any number, even a VoIP number. (And you can connect to the VoIP provider with PGPP Relay enabled.)