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Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

blog.coinbase.com

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Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#51

Post by babypuncher »

AnonC wrote: post #29
caconym_ wrote: post #14

I'm sick of hearing about what crypto "could" do. I used BTC to pay for a few lunches back when transaction fees were in the cents rather than hundreds (?) of dollars or worse, and it was pretty neat, but it's clear today that the crypto ecosystem has largely become a paradise for grifters, scammers, fraudsters, and straight-up criminals, and (more generally) just another way for the rich and sophisticated to get ric…

I’m scratching my head after reading this. Bitcoin doesn’t have “gas fees”. That’s an Ethereum thing (the term and the fee being very high). I’ve read online that Bitcoin transaction fees are in cents. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can confirm how it is nowadays.

The fee is based on transaction volume. At it's height bitcoin transaction fees hit $62 last year. Right now it's down to $1.60.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#52

Post by FriendlyNormie »

jmoak3 wrote: post #22
jbaczuk wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company? Lightning is a distributed network and anyone can participate.

I thought lightning was just code for "Off-Chain transactions processed by someone else". Reading here: https://cointelegraph.com/bitcoin-for-beginners/what-is-the-... I still get that impression: >The Lightning Network is a second layer added to Bitcoin’s (BTC) blockchain that allows off-chain transactions, i.e. transactions between parties not on the blockchain network. Can you help me understand how this will be d…

No post body was provided.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#53

Post by xvilka »

nradov wrote: post #28
xvilka wrote: post #7

Even with all cryptocurrencies prices roller coaster and continuous scams they are 100x times better still than traditional banks - less paperwork, everything automated as much as possible, often even faster. No COBOL and online clients from 1990.

How is it better? I can't buy anything that I actually want with cryptocurrency. There's no paperwork for my traditional bank accounts and everything is already automated and fast. The programming language they use on the back end is utterly irrelevant to customers, we never see it. Nothing wrong with COBOL anyway, it still works fine.

> There's no paperwork for my traditional bank accounts and everything is already automated and fast.

I have completely different experience with many different banks in Asia and Africa.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#54

Post by makoz »

xvilka wrote: post #7

Even with all cryptocurrencies prices roller coaster and continuous scams they are 100x times better still than traditional banks - less paperwork, everything automated as much as possible, often even faster. No COBOL and online clients from 1990.

Do you mind expanding why as an end-user paying in cryptocurrencies is easier than signing up for a credit card and paying with that?

To sign up for a credit card (in USA), I just provide my personal information to some banking website and they mail me the credit card in a week or so that I can start to use.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#55

Post by nope96 »

I know Crypto is scam-city, but the Lightning Network on top of Bitcoin is the "real deal". There are some brilliant people working on it like Linux guru Rusty Russell and Olaoluwa Osuntokun, who have come up with some amazing work in the last few years. The crypto space is 99.9% BS scams, but this isn't one of them.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#56

Post by jmoak3 »

dbrgn wrote: post #33
jmoak3 wrote: post #10

Lightning Network is just a centralized company acting as a middleman, occasionally (if ever) committing changes to the blockchain right? If that is the case, then theoretically Visa and Paypal are already lightning networks, just without the periodic bitcoin commits. If so, wouldn't that mean that if Visa and Paypal are banned from letting country X citizens send funds to someone in country Y, wouldn't the gov of X…

No, Lightning Network is a distributed protocol. Here's a good intro: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/understanding-the-ligh... Technically, Lightning Network is fascinating and quite ingenious. Practically, the blogpost above was written in 2016, so more than 6 years ago, and LN - in my impression - hasn't really taken off yet... I wonder if it's due to its complexity, plus the potential need for watchtower se…

It just seems to me like it allows you to open a secure high speed channel with someone you expect to transact with frequently. That's interesting but most people transact with different people constantly - so unless I want to have an open channel that closes nightly/weekly/monthly with every store I shop at, wouldn't I use a centralized service?

How would that be different than opening an account with Paypal, and everyone you transact with also having a Paypal account, and you all using Paypal to send money between each other, and occasionally Paypal sending money to your real bank account?

EDIT:

I suppose I could just have a channel with every party I transact with that closes monthly (like a credit card), but the lack of reversals mean I would like a centralized service to be able to buffer my money from other parties, like my current credit card offers

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#57

Post by arcticbull »

caconym_ wrote: post #14

I'm sick of hearing about what crypto "could" do. I used BTC to pay for a few lunches back when transaction fees were in the cents rather than hundreds (?) of dollars or worse, and it was pretty neat, but it's clear today that the crypto ecosystem has largely become a paradise for grifters, scammers, fraudsters, and straight-up criminals, and (more generally) just another way for the rich and sophisticated to get ric…

Lightning isn't disrupting anything. It'll take 75 years, the better part of a trillion dollars of power and all the remaining block reward (assuming 100% saturation of block space) to simply open channels for everyone on the planet. It would take months just to open a channel for the folks in the Bay Area. Once you do, it has quadratic routing complexity meaning it wouldn't even work in the first place. Move along, nothing to see here.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#58

Post by babypuncher »

jmoak3 wrote: post #10

Lightning Network is just a centralized company acting as a middleman, occasionally (if ever) committing changes to the blockchain right? If that is the case, then theoretically Visa and Paypal are already lightning networks, just without the periodic bitcoin commits. If so, wouldn't that mean that if Visa and Paypal are banned from letting country X citizens send funds to someone in country Y, wouldn't the gov of X…

Every time someone comes in and tries to solve these problems cryptocurrencies have they end up recreating standard banks and payment processors, only without all the federally mandated consumer protections built into actual banks and financial institutions.

People are just hell-bent on re-learning 200 years of banking history firsthand.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#59

Post by caconym_ »

AnonC wrote: post #29
caconym_ wrote: post #14

I'm sick of hearing about what crypto "could" do. I used BTC to pay for a few lunches back when transaction fees were in the cents rather than hundreds (?) of dollars or worse, and it was pretty neat, but it's clear today that the crypto ecosystem has largely become a paradise for grifters, scammers, fraudsters, and straight-up criminals, and (more generally) just another way for the rich and sophisticated to get ric…

I’m scratching my head after reading this. Bitcoin doesn’t have “gas fees”. That’s an Ethereum thing (the term and the fee being very high). I’ve read online that Bitcoin transaction fees are in cents. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can confirm how it is nowadays.

I prefer to call them "transaction fees" myself. I believe that's what "gas" refers to; people apparently call it "gas" these days so I have adopted that terminology so that everybody knows what I'm talking about. IIUC Bitcoin, Ethereum, and other PoW-based crypto "coins" all require transaction fees to function, so that's what I'm referring to, regardless of what people associated with any particular "coin" choose to call them.

Re: Bitcoin Lightning network could disrupt $150B year payment/remittance industry

#60

Post by Analemma_ »

cannaceo wrote: post #27
targ65 wrote: post #6

"Let’s say you want to make a $100 payment to a merchant. Using your credit card would cost the merchant $3, which is then passed along to you via hidden costs. " You also get 1-3 credit card points, which for you is extra money that you wouldn't get if you were to pay for this with Bitcoin or, for that matter, cash. Also if the merchant screws you and sends you the wrong or a broken item, you can dispute the charge…

If crypto was the default we would all be amazed at this improved system of having fraud insurance, rewards for spending, customer service, and fast transactions.

And not using more electricity than an average household consumes in a month for a single transaction.
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