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2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

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Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#21

Post by cjlars »

rvenugopal wrote: post #20
sgrove wrote: post #2

I was aghast when I read that the Square COO didn't see much value in NFC ( http://gigaom.com/2011/09/26/square-mobilize-2011/ ). After spending a lot of time in Seoul where it's possible to pay for a ton of stuff via T-money card (a clipper-card-like NFC card for the public transit system), I hate pulling out my card to swipe or counting cash. NFC can phenomenally improve the experience of nearly everything we do ri…

What is so phenomenal about what Tagstand is doing? It appears to be just client side NFC with a library like zxing http://zxing.appspot.com/generator/ What am I missing?

NFC offers two big opportunities. The first is NFC as hardware, which is what Tagstand is doing. I agree that this is a fairly straightforward business.

The second, and arguably much larger, opportunity is the software component, which we haven't really seen yet. There's a whole world of programs and services that can be built around this hardware once it's in use.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#22

Post by lemming »

icebraining wrote: post #10

What's exactly the difference between NFC and RFID? The NFC Forum FAQ isn't very clear. Here in Portugal (and AFAIK in multiple European countries) we use contactless cards for public transportation, but that's about it; payments are still done with debit cards or cash.

They're basically the same thing with different ranges. NFC has a range of about 4cm, RFID goes up to a couple of metres I think. NFC is generally used when you want to make sure someone gets really close, which is generally the case with payments. You don't want someone able to interact with your credit card from several metres away without you knowing about it.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#23

Post by auston »

JunkDNA wrote: post #12

As an average end user, what specific problem is NFC going to solve for me? I just don't get it.

I can think of one: http://shopulator.me

"Shopulator lets you tabulate the running total on your grocery cart by tapping your phone against the product price tag as you put it in your cart. The information is stored in the "cloud" (aka the internet) so people can create grocery lists, shop collaboratively & more."

disclaimer: i created shopulator.me

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#24

Post by l_subbu »

JunkDNA wrote: post #12

As an average end user, what specific problem is NFC going to solve for me? I just don't get it.

When people talk about NFC, most people seem to be talking about only payments. The article talks about other uses as well for NFC. To me, NFC is a bridge between the real world and the virtual world. I look at an NFC tag on an object or a physical entity as really a door that leads to its digital manifestation in the virtual world. Some things are done better (or can only be done) in the real world and some are done better in the virtual world. For example, walking into a store to take a look at the product and try it out for yourself has to be done in the real world! However, finding out what others think about it or it's pricing history is better done online. What NFC does is marry the two worlds seamlessly. Where previously the user had to do this manually on his phone while at the store, a scan of the NFC tag could readily bring up all the relevant information. Bar codes and QR codes make this possible as well - so I cannot quite answer yet why NFC tags would be better for this. But there are other cases of active-active interactions (as opposed to active-passive interactions) where a passive bar code or QR code wouldn't be enough. A good example of this is authenticating someone in person where authentication relies on both the physical proximity (which is established with an NFC scan) and a crypto protocol to establish the identity that is best handled by your mobile device. Mobile payments happens to be one use-case of the active-active interaction where physical proximity is transformed to an interaction in the virtual world. Admittedly the biggest use-case though.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#25

Post by tazzy531 »

NFC has a huge uphill battle in the US.

It is not for the lack of ideas, nor is it the lack of people trying to build interesting technology with it. It is because of the carriers.

Yes, the carriers, like Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile.

Before I explain why the carriers are the problems, let's step back and talk about how NFC payment works. On every NFC phone, there is a chip that is called the secure element. The secure element is the location on your phone that is separate from the operating system that stores highly encrypted data that only trusted programs can access. This is the only secure location on your phone that one can safely and securely store payment credentials. Storing payment credential on any other part of the phone exposes it to abuse.

On the NFC-enabled phones in your pocket, the carriers have full control of the secure element. They are actively preventing other companies from using this to store any information and fully utilizing NFC to their potential as a digital wallet.

The reason they are doing this is that Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile have a joint venture called Isis [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISIS_(mobile_payment_system)]. Through this joint venture, they want to own a piece of the mobile payment market. Anyone that wants to create a mobile wallet must pay them for the right to do so. (Notice how the Google Wallet launched on the only carrier that is not part of the joint venture?)

[see http://www.nfctimes.com/news/isis-plans-launch-three-banks-c...] "In addition, Isis plans to charge fees to banks and other service providers to rent space on their SIM cards or other secure elements in the NFC phones the carriers sell."

See also: http://www.nfctimes.com/news/google-nfc-platforms-should-be-... _______________________ "Dickson Chu, Citi’s head of global enterprise payments for digital networks and mobile, speaking at a conference earlier this month, reportedly complained that Isis was taking the role of a “gatekeeper.” Isis would charge fees to banks and other service providers to rent space on its SIM cards or other secure elements, as many mobile operators plan to do when they roll out NFC. That’s in addition to charging fees for delivering coupons or offers. Google plans to charge fees from advertisers for delivering coupons and other offers but not from payment service providers.

“It's unclear what they (Isis telcos) are trying to achieve, other than extract a toll as gatekeepers,” Chu reportedly said. “There's so much more that they could do...as it is they are just hampering the development of NFC as a mass-market commercial proposition.” _______________________

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#26

Post by InclinedPlane »

Someone isn't paying attention.

A lot of smartphones are acquiring NFC capability (the so-called "android beam"). One of the most popular new toys this year uses NFC as an integral feature (Skylanders).

NFC will soon be standard on a lot of phones, and once the installed base becomes significant then it's only a matter of time before usage becomes significant as well. Especially when you remember that with smartphones and tablets there's no need to wait for a substantial build out of expensive fixed infrastructure.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#27

Post by blub »

l_subbu wrote: post #24
JunkDNA wrote: post #12

As an average end user, what specific problem is NFC going to solve for me? I just don't get it.

When people talk about NFC, most people seem to be talking about only payments. The article talks about other uses as well for NFC. To me, NFC is a bridge between the real world and the virtual world. I look at an NFC tag on an object or a physical entity as really a door that leads to its digital manifestation in the virtual world. Some things are done better (or can only be done) in the real world and some are done…

NFC is easier for the customer compared to bar codes. They just have to touch the tag, whereas with barcodes they have to use a scanning app and so on...

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#28

Post by blub »

tazzy531 wrote: post #25

NFC has a huge uphill battle in the US. It is not for the lack of ideas, nor is it the lack of people trying to build interesting technology with it. It is because of the carriers. Yes, the carriers, like Verizon, AT&T, and T-Mobile. Before I explain why the carriers are the problems, let's step back and talk about how NFC payment works. On every NFC phone, there is a chip that is called the secure element. The secur…

Maybe, but NFC can also be used as a communication technology, and there are no gatekeepers there.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#29

Post by blub »

rodh257 wrote: post #18
thesash wrote: post #6

...Unless the next iPhone supports NFC

this is what will actually make it take off I believe. While a subset of Android devices support it, the marketing push it will receive when Apple bring it to their devices is what will drive adoption. All the news articles and other coverage that come when a new iPhone is announced will talk about how the new iphone is making the wallet obsolete etc, and people will get their first introduction to the technology. I…

Apple will probably be the last to the NFC party. They are (smartly?) letting the other manufacturers bring the technology to the market.

Re: 2012 Will Be The Year NFC Breaks Big--Just Not In The U.S.

#30

Post by brackin »

pyre wrote: post #5
kul wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I think Square are ultimately technology agnostic, but they don't want the "nfc = payments" meme to spread, not quite sure why. But yes, after travelling through Asia and seeing nfc payments in action, I totally agree. The Hong Kong anecdote is true. I was surprised that places wouldn't accept credit card but would happily accept my transit card for payments. It's a big opportunity in other emerging market…

> they don't want the "nfc = payments" meme to spread, > not quite sure why Maybe because it takes away from the idea that Square will be able to dominate? Maybe they see the spread of NFC as a way that the current credit card companies can jump on the tech bandwagon and edge Square out? Dunno.

Square reminds me of the Netbook in 2009. They were very successful in the short time but they weren't moving forward and everyone knew the tablet would eventually rule.

NFC will eventually take over and they'll either fade out or have to rethink.

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