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Hetzner Price Adjustment

docs.hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#231

Post by happyopossum »

Timshel wrote: post #146
PeterisP wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like with refrigerators - when some years ago it was both cost-efficient and even 'green' to scrap working refrigerators and replace them with new ones, because the difference in improved energy efficiency meant that the electricity cost savings outweighed the cost of the new refrigerator already within a year or two and the reduced pollution from less electricity (at the time, fossil fuels) outweighed the envir…

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.... ) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A…

$0.15 is laughably cheap for some parts of the country... Here in California it's not uncommon to pay 3x that, so $600/yr in electricity saved by a $400 appliance is a huge deal.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#232

Post by delroth »

collegeburner wrote: post #219
Gasp0de wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably live in the USA, because 200w 24/7 would cost me about 600€/year which is definitely significant.

one of the upsides to living in texas, lots of cheap wind power lol. even with more expensive electricity i can still run old hardware for cheap. means less e waste also.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US-TEX-ERCO

Your cheap TX electricity is, unsurprisingly, mostly gas. And if you look at data from 12h ago it was more coal than wind.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#233

Post by Auracle »

doikor wrote: post #177
riskable wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They wanted to be super green so lets go with sun and wind This is a complete mischaracterization of why Germany invested so much into renewables. Like... 20 years ago? Germany saw the writing on the wall when it comes to how they were getting their energy which at the time was mostly coming from coal. They didn't want to go Nuclear for whatever reason so that left renewables and natural gas which wasn't preferred…

I would say the big mistake was to only use pipelines to Russia for gas. They should have built LNG terminals as redundancy. And maybe push for another pipeline to Algeria either through France and Spain or Austria/Switzerland and Italy. They basically left the door open to abusive trade partners by not building any redundancy on such a critical resource. And it is not just electricity Germany needs gas for as it is…

I’m just going to point out that Trump said this exact thing and was ridiculed for it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/09/25/trump-accuse...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#234

Post by Mo3 »

kej wrote: post #230
Mo3 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm almost anxious to ask, I know very little about the topic, but I've been wondering if it wasn't a viable option to just shoot the waste into space? I know it's prohibitively expensive to do that as of now, but seeing what they're doing with Spinlaunch..

In addition to the raw costs of moving anything into space, there is the contingency cost of what happens if the launch goes wrong. A new satellite blowing up on the launchpad is bad, but a cargo of nuclear waste exploding a few seconds after liftoff is catastrophic.

True, that sounds reasonable..

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#235

Post by blitzar »

adrianN wrote: post #108
lukeqsee wrote: post #4

While the pricing is interesting, I think the fact it is driven by the input costs of electricity is even more telling. The fact that electricity costs is the dominating (edit, correction: marginal ) cost of cloud computing basically means that: 1) We're up against physical barriers to lowering the cost (and ecological impact) of our clouds. 2) Optimizing for less compute will pay multi-fold dividends over the next f…

How many data centers already use waste heat for district heating?

gonna go out on a limb and say 0... made me look though and apparently it is starting to happen.

In March (2022), Fortum and Microsoft announced our joint plan for a ground-breaking data centre region in the Helsinki, Finland metropolitan area. The data centres will use 100% clean electricity and the waste heat they generate will be used to heat homes, as well as business and public premises in the area. I must say I am immensely proud of this project – but I believe it’s only the beginning.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#236

Post by tedunangst »

Timshel wrote: post #146
PeterisP wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like with refrigerators - when some years ago it was both cost-efficient and even 'green' to scrap working refrigerators and replace them with new ones, because the difference in improved energy efficiency meant that the electricity cost savings outweighed the cost of the new refrigerator already within a year or two and the reduced pollution from less electricity (at the time, fossil fuels) outweighed the envir…

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.... ) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A…

I plugged my parents 1960 fridge into a kilowatt and it used so little power I had to leave it plugged in for several days to make sure I got a reasonable reading. Something like 2 kwhr per day. So it would take about five years for a replacement to pay for itself if the replacement ran on nothing but happy thoughts.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#237

Post by MatthiasPortzel »

sveme wrote: post #214
highwaylights wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush out of nuclear fission power still shocks me. It's a miracle fuel. It really is wonderful. It solves climate change almost by itself, or it would have, had Chernobyl and Fukushima not been reported so irresponsibly.

No one knows where to put the trash. That was the major reason for the phase-out, that no one knew how to handle that. I'm just the messenger, don't shoot me. And please do not come up with future inventions that will magically remove that issue, that does not help. Btw, it wasn't really a rush, it was started more than 30 years ago by not building new nuclear power plants. Many of the power plants are actually at th…

Burning coal on the other hand has a waste disposal mechanism built in! The carbon atoms are converted into CO2, a harmless gas that we can release into the atmosphere without any consequences.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#238

Post by galdosdi »

tikhonj wrote: post #195
endorphine wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "notorious" though? Isn't this a good thing for them and for customers as well? I would expect "famous", since this seems lika a feat/achievement to me.

"Notorious" isn't always negative—the connotations of the word depend on context (and probably regional use?) in sometimes confusing ways.

Indeed! It's a really interesting usage. Maybe it developed in a similar way as "badass" to convey a sense of (positive, approved) vaguely dangerous wildness and coolness.

It kind of makes sense here -- Hetzner's competitors probably hate this "notorious" behavior of being so good at ruthlessly[1] slashing prices

[1] See, another example of this sort of thing. Cool!

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#239

Post by tuetuopay »

sveme wrote: post #214
highwaylights wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rush out of nuclear fission power still shocks me. It's a miracle fuel. It really is wonderful. It solves climate change almost by itself, or it would have, had Chernobyl and Fukushima not been reported so irresponsibly.

No one knows where to put the trash. That was the major reason for the phase-out, that no one knew how to handle that. I'm just the messenger, don't shoot me. And please do not come up with future inventions that will magically remove that issue, that does not help. Btw, it wasn't really a rush, it was started more than 30 years ago by not building new nuclear power plants. Many of the power plants are actually at th…

> No one knows where to put the trash. That was the major reason for the phase-out, that no one knew how to handle that.

We know so well how to handle it that we are wondering how to keep people out of the storage places in the event of a civilization collapse. That is, where current languages are forgotten and we forget what nuclear is. That's how advanced in storage we are.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#240

Post by kuboble »

ReadTheLicense wrote: post #145
kuboble wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. I have to admit you're right. But it seems to not be universally true. In Poland I have found that price for companies can be 3x higher based on at least one source. C11 - the tariff for the companies seem to cost 1.6 PLN / kwH [1] G11 - the same tarrif for households seem to cost more like 0.4-0.5PLN / kwH [2] [1] https://www.energa.pl/mala-firma/umowy/prad-dla-firm.html [2] https://www.energa.pl/dom/umowy/tar…

I'd guess this is because of price regulation, not subsidy.

What's the difference?
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