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Google’s caste-bias problem

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Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#181

Post by hikingsimulator »

georgia_peach wrote: post #147

I am reposting PaulHoule's (flagged) comment because it was a very good one: > *I have wondered if the high Asian population is one reason why San Francisco has such conspicuous homelessness. Western religion has some egalitarian ideas such as “The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” > On the other hand if you think a person…

It's not a very good one. Western philosophies and religions can definitely show this type of bias.

Some branches of protestantism do believe in predestination. It's also common to see (bad) Christian takes that suffering is a challenge from god (often backed by Job's trials) and thus a thing that may not need changing.

I believe Max Weber also covered this concept sociologically in The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#182

Post by [deleted] »

40acres wrote: post #134
nojito wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s done through seemingly simple questions. Usually dealing with what city they are from, what city are your parents from, are you vegetarian, are you having dessert? I've never experienced or seen the thread searching. Larger person grabs your shoulder to see if the thread is there. But that wouldn't surprise me at all.

This is interesting. I believe vegetarianism is higher caste but dessert is a tricky one.

[deleted]

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#183

Post by andsoitis »

lampshades wrote: post #152
andsoitis wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> white people are shot by cops at a very high rate If you think that cops target white folks then you must probably be an avid supporter of reforming law enforcement.

Yes, I am an avid supporter of reforming our increasingly militarized police force, why wouldn’t I be? And to be clear, I don’t think cops “target white people” just like I don’t think cops “target black people”. Cops have an aggression problem, are trigger happy, and poorly trained.

> I don’t think cops “target black people”.

This. Here lies the core of the disagreement. Data suggests otherwise.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#184

Post by Tryk »

nojito wrote: post #84

As a US born individual with immigrant parents, I had NO idea how many times I got scoped for my caste. It’s quite amazing how routine simple questions have ulterior motives behind them. Now that I am a more senior in my career, I’ve made it my mission to always call it out when it happens. I hope others start doing it as well.

What kinds of questions would people ask to scope out your caste?

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#185

Post by chjahi92 »

jackling wrote: post #171
upupandup wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian managers against non-Indian employees This happens all the time in Canada. When you have a large ethnic majority and they start identifying with the language and start bringing toxic work culture with management fully aware of the issues and exploiting this. For example for a startup I worked for in Vancouver had a large Chinese/Russian majority in the development team. They would stay behind past working ho…

"not a surprise why Canada has a brain drain going on" As a fellow Canadian, I really doubt this is the reason Canada is having "brain drain" problems. I'm in Toronto, not Vancouver, and I have never heard anyone leaving the country because of bad management. It's usually just for money.

It’s likely part of the problem. I stomached making less in Canada, but I couldn’t stomach making 50% less in Canada and being poorly managed by a racist.

(I’m a Canadian too, speaking from my own experience border hopping for work.)

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#187

Post by sreevisakh »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #97
pc86 wrote: post #67

We need to stop calling this a "caste-bias problem" and call it what it is: racism. Just because they're not a distinct ethnicity doesn't mean it's not racism, and the people looking down on others because of their caste are no different than the white guy yelling the n word in traffic. Neither should be tolerated, and if you find yourself working with one, they should be fired. It is antithetical to an open society.

Isn't racism based on race or ethnic groups. Caste bias can be like a white person judging another white person because one grew up in the Bronx while the other is from New Jersey. That is not racism but classism maybe mixed in with some religious discrimination.

You're missing the cultural insight needed to understand caste. For example, two people from New Jersey may tolerate each other even if one of their ancestors are from other places. Castes on the other hand, carries on from generation to generation. It's extremely hard to get rid of the caste label you're born with. Another factor is the level of discrimination involved. Caste is widely used to judge academic and professional proficiencies. It's extremely hard for lower caste people to rise up even if they work hard. They get denied and often demotivated in public. It gets much worse within India. Lower caste people are kept away from good residential areas, many commercial establishments and even village wells.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#188

Post by winternett »

xbar wrote: post #123
winternett wrote: post #94

We spend so much time talking about the traditional race and class struggles in the United States that we don't really have the capacity to properly deal with and address the issues inserted into race by other world countries. It bewilders me to this day to think of all the different dynamics that old world thought subtly imposes on the painting that is now... Just the other day I remembered how as a young guy I was…

> If your company photos from leadership levels to the development room don't truly reflect diversity, the people in charge often end up multiplying the blindness to cultural bias In traditional American Black/white photos, you are flat-out right. Many of the problems you allude to cannot be fully addressed until leadership is diverse. In the context of caste, it is challenging for non-Indian Americans to discern the…

Everyone has the opportunity to learn about the dynamics of race within our world. In the corporate world, continual education and awareness of cultures and bias should be an expectation of every employee.

So many people study history and economics, but only the parts that are relevant to them... Learning outside of our own experiences actually helps greatly to increase chances of success in life by connecting with others outside of our normal culture and experiences...

It's a challenge that can be very rewarding if it is ritually practiced by all individuals not just in companies, but in life... Different cuisines alone that I've been exposed to (by new friends outside of my home culture) have been life altering in a great way. I understand context of current events and even TV shows and movies far better than I used to because of my exposure to cultures and languages beyond my own.

It's unfathomable to me how anyone could be resistant towards cultural learning, empathy, understanding, and growth outside of their own. It's a big reason why bias keeps resurging, because of that ingrained resistance (in this world) towards understanding and learning about each other.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#189

Post by ceres »

hadlock wrote: post #163
ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I'm saying a group of relatives from India methodically only hire eachother and use vicious politics to climb the ladder in american corporations. I watched it occur over a decade and still see the hiring updates on LinkedIn, "I am proud to announce we have hired XYZ from other big corp as the new head of data and governance."

This is very common/normal. My last company got eaten in a merger (acquisition) most of the senior leadership from the old company, are now at a competing company. They did not all end up there by random chance. Network network network. It's self reinforcing, because those people know who will get the job done, and make them look good doing it. It's often better to hire a known good person, rather than roll the dice…

What you and the parent are describing are two different things. The parent is talking about ethnic nepotism which isn’t just “network network network”.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#190

Post by rdtsc »

> Numerous employees within the company expressed the view that any talk on caste discrimination was offensive to the

That’s one way to play the system - outvictim the victim! Well done. Who can prove they really felt unsafe or just wanted to keep the issue hidden and perpetuate caste discrimination.

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