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Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

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Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#91

Post by marc1970 »

idk1 wrote: post #54

I think I'm accidentally good at this by having speech therapy in school a million years ago because I spoke way to fast as a child. Also they gave me a starter book on rhetoric which helped a lot. Key things I'd say are: - Prep what you're going to say in your mind before you say it. - Where to load infomation in a sentance and then paragraphs is crucial. Like if it's a joke keep the key piece of info at the end, th…

> Where to load infomation in a sentance and then paragraphs is crucial. Like if it's a joke keep the key piece of info at the end, that is like how jokes work. If it's a story, pepper info throughout to keep interest. If it's work and you're trying to communicate big ideas, cover key topics at the start and build on them.

Do you have any books or articles on this topic? I feel like this skill is missing from my communication.

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#93

Post by Kenneth39 »

felixnm wrote: post #43

I used to take the Chicago Metra and ride in the vestibule to exit the train quickly. The same 8 people would always be there every day but this gentleman, "Gary", would always carry the conversations. People were just drawn to him and I was in awe of how he captivated us with his stories. I was able to study him for a couple of years and came up with a list of how he was able to hold our attention: 1) Gary spoke lou…

What a wonderful story. Thank you!

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#94

Post by noufalibrahim »

hammock wrote: post #27
noufalibrahim wrote: post #24

Toastmasters meetings have something called "table topics" where you need to give a short talk on a topic with only fifteen or so seconds of preparation. It's great for developing the skill to figure out arguments, creating a framework for talking etc. Generally speaking, this whole thing is like a physical skill and you need to practice. The TM meetings give you a place to do that. Also, don't underestimate the valu…

Is there a guide anywhere on how to run or coach these? (Besides going to a toastmasters event or reading a summary, not a guide for running/coaching them, on toastmasters.org)

Not that I'm aware of. The typical way is for you, assuming you live in an area without a club to attend a meeting at a larger city with a club. Then members of that club can sponsor and help you set up a local branch. They'll come and do some demo talks etc. You can gather a local audience for that and finally you're good to go.

The manuals and the pathways program give you instructions on what each project has to achieve etc.

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#95

Post by noufalibrahim »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #24

Toastmasters meetings have something called "table topics" where you need to give a short talk on a topic with only fifteen or so seconds of preparation. It's great for developing the skill to figure out arguments, creating a framework for talking etc. Generally speaking, this whole thing is like a physical skill and you need to practice. The TM meetings give you a place to do that. Also, don't underestimate the valu…

I remember once I had to give a talk on "my favourite wonder of the seven wonders of the world." I wasn't sure what the 7 wonders were so I gave a talk on the commonality between them being human will and it's ability to overcome obstacles to create enduring monuments. It was well received and I took home a prize.

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#96

Post by michepriest »

Don’t think about what you want to say. When you think about what you want to say, you stop listening.

Instead listen openly, mirror to get more information on anything you’re unclear about. People love being mirrored (repeat the last thing they said but as a question- Chris Voss writes about this in ‘Never Split the Difference’).

Get enough information until you understand the gist of what the speaker is trying to say from their point of view. Stay curious. Refrain from making assumptions or assigning any judgement. It’s easier to persuade when you deeply understand their view and why they have it

You can practice getting the gist in conversations you observe but aren’t part of. Then in group settings you’ll start finding yourself saying, what I think so and so meant was… Added benefit is when the other person feels heard and you help advance the conversation for all participants, you’ll be seen as a great conversationalist

Remember it’s not about what you want to say. It’s about how you want the listener to feel during the conversation. Make them feel heard, earn their trust. Earn their trust, persuade them of anything

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#97

Post by ramblerman »

michepriest wrote: post #96

Don’t think about what you want to say. When you think about what you want to say, you stop listening. Instead listen openly, mirror to get more information on anything you’re unclear about. People love being mirrored (repeat the last thing they said but as a question- Chris Voss writes about this in ‘Never Split the Difference’). Get enough information until you understand the gist of what the speaker is trying to s…

While good advice for persuading someone 1-1, and I also highly recommend Chris Voss. I'm not quite sure that's what OP asked here.

How do you formulate an interesting, and compelling argument to captivate an audience on the spot. That's quite a different feat than charming one individual by letting them do most of the talking, and prodding with good (mirrored) questions.

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#98

Post by MaxDPS »

noufalibrahim wrote: post #95
noufalibrahim wrote: post #24

Toastmasters meetings have something called "table topics" where you need to give a short talk on a topic with only fifteen or so seconds of preparation. It's great for developing the skill to figure out arguments, creating a framework for talking etc. Generally speaking, this whole thing is like a physical skill and you need to practice. The TM meetings give you a place to do that. Also, don't underestimate the valu…

I remember once I had to give a talk on "my favourite wonder of the seven wonders of the world." I wasn't sure what the 7 wonders were so I gave a talk on the commonality between them being human will and it's ability to overcome obstacles to create enduring monuments. It was well received and I took home a prize.

That’s awesome. I have a slightly similar story.

Some class in college had us do debates taking a side on some legislation that was being discussed in congress. I had just given my argument and the other side came up to ask me questions (like a cross examination).

One of the questions ended up being what I’d consider a gotcha question (though really I should have known the answer). They asked me what the bills name stood for (it was one of those crazy acronyms they like to use). I honestly don’t think I made it a point to remember that because it was a silly name, so I almost froze for a bit. But instead I answered by explaining the “moral implications” of “what the bill stood for”. I think the professor liked that because I wasn’t deducted any points.

Also, I wouldn’t take any credit for thinking on my feet because I’m pretty sure I simply misunderstood the question at the time lmao

Re: Ask HN: Exercises to think, then speak, more clearly?

#100

Post by JoshCole »

Socrates in Plato's dialogues is one of the most influential teachers on this topic. The conclusion was that it is a stupid goal to have: outright self-destructive. His student Aristotle would under the influence of Plato's teachings discover Logic.

Have you considered that it is indeed an unfair superpower to be able to persuade anyone of anything? Most of all to you, but also to your audience?

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