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Hetzner Price Adjustment

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Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#201

Post by reaperducer »

bushbaba wrote: post #137
aaronax wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use $1 USD per watt per year, with electric prices around $0.10/kWh. Good enough to inform decisions like whether to leave a light on all the time ($5/year) or whether to purchase a NAS vs. used server ($40 vs. $300 per year). I guess my prices are actually a little over $0.10 and a watt over a year is a little under 10,000Wh as shown in your calculations, so those offset to make the estimate even more accurate (th…

In sf electricity is closer to 4x that rate.

I just signed a new contract at 18.9¢/kWh + delivery. That's up from last year's contract rate of 8.1¢/kWh.

With the way the world is today, we'll all be paying SF prices soon.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#202

Post by wewxjfq »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #40
weberer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany shut down all their nuclear plants about 10 years ago, opting to rely on natural gas from Russia. Finland invested in nuclear and is bringing their latest plant online this fall. It doesn't take a genius to see which one would be hit harder by sanctions on Russian gas.

> Germany shut down all their nuclear plants about 10 years ago... "Nuclear power in Germany accounted for 13.3% of German electricity supply in 2021, generated by six power plants, of which three were switched off at the end of 2021, the other three due to cease operation at the end of 2022 according to the complete nuclear phase-out plan of 2011." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany

And spot market prices last December when all six plants were running at full power were as high as they are now. This has nothing to do with nuclear energy. It's demand pushing Germany to run more expensive power plants, which in turn dictate the price of electricity for all power plants, so pointing at the electricity mix of Germany is a waste of time.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#203

Post by Timshel »

Macha wrote: post #175
Timshel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.... ) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A…

1. Electricity in other countries is more expensive. e.g. in Ireland it is €0.35/kwh (~$0.40). 2. Other countries have smaller houses, therefore smaller kitchens therefore smaller refrigerators. Between that and higher energy efficiency standards in general, new refrigerators in my local store vary from 230kwh (A energy rating) to 260kwh (F energy rating) in power usage.

For your second point it probably applied 10/20 years ago too, then it means you have an even smaller budget to make some economy.

So even when doubling electricity price I fail to see how it could be possible to reach the two years originally mentioned.

And I believe each time I have seen this 2 years figure mentioned it was probably USA centric conversation. I'm French and I had never heard of it before.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#204

Post by belter »

highwaylights wrote: post #185
cbmuser wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t get 100% renewable in Germany. The mix is 50% renewables, the rest is nuclear, coal and natural gas. With nuclear being phased out for ideological reasons and natural gas being scarse due to the war in Ukraine, Germany will soon burn more coal than ever. New electricity contracts already go as high as 70 Cents/kWh thanks to the misguided energy policy in Germany.

The rush out of nuclear fission power still shocks me. It's a miracle fuel. It really is wonderful. It solves climate change almost by itself, or it would have, had Chernobyl and Fukushima not been reported so irresponsibly.

"The history behind Germany's nuclear phase-out": https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/history-behind-ge...

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#205

Post by pmyteh »

pavon wrote: post #187
thatguy0900 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what that actually accomplishes in non marketing terms. That just means someone else is getting less renewable electricity, right?

It depends on what other market forces there are. If the utility has a government mandate to install more renewable energy than there are renewable energy customers, then it is like you say - just a book-keeping exercise. On the other hand, if there is no government mandate, or if customer demand for renewable energy exceeds that mandate, then it provides a profit incentive for the utility to install/purchase more re…

One of the British '100% renewable' companies used to buy renewable power and then destroy their surplus resellable renewable obligation certificates instead of selling them (each supplier was obliged to hold certificates covering x% of their supply, where x They stopped, publicly reasoning that the proceeds from selling certs could be used to build their own additional renewable generation. I suspect it was just leaving too much money on the table, though.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#206

Post by joss82 »

highwaylights wrote: post #190
joss82 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't (unless you do it yourself but the price is extremely high if you want uninterrupted power). What happens is: your provider purchase "green energy certificates" which means that some green electricity was generated on a sunny and/or windy day. When it's night and the wind don't blow, you use coal and gas as everyone else. No storage is cheap enough to store solar and wind energy on day-to-day scale, let…

There's a massive business opportunity for someone willing to produce low density batteries for home use. In a lot of countries customers are billed significantly less during the night than during the day for electricity, so the incentives already exist to make it financially worthwhile if a home battery pack that can provide a days typical use can be installed at a reasonable cost. This would substantially smooth ou…

> There's a massive business opportunity for someone willing to produce low density batteries for home use.

Can you explain why, please? I'm genuinely interested. I don't understand how this would be anything other than rich prepper niche market.

Installing batteries in all homes is going to be more expensive than grid storage, since you will need to pay more in total installation costs rather than installing ginormous grid batteries (or reversible dams, where feasible) in bulk.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#207

Post by iwillbeshutup »

cbmuser wrote: post #155
Loic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, my rule of thumb was that a constant 1W load is 1€/year. This year, I had to update it, it is now more something like 3€/year. The increase is so important I am still not sure if my calculations are right! 1W x 24h x 365 = 8760Wh My current price: 0.33€/kWh (100% renewable) 8.76kWh x 0.33€/kWh = 2.89€

You don’t get 100% renewable in Germany. The mix is 50% renewables, the rest is nuclear, coal and natural gas. With nuclear being phased out for ideological reasons and natural gas being scarse due to the war in Ukraine, Germany will soon burn more coal than ever. New electricity contracts already go as high as 70 Cents/kWh thanks to the misguided energy policy in Germany.

No post body was provided.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#208

Post by Loic »

mqus wrote: post #164
Loic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, my rule of thumb was that a constant 1W load is 1€/year. This year, I had to update it, it is now more something like 3€/year. The increase is so important I am still not sure if my calculations are right! 1W x 24h x 365 = 8760Wh My current price: 0.33€/kWh (100% renewable) 8.76kWh x 0.33€/kWh = 2.89€

My rule was something like 2Eur /10W/Month(~2A 5V Raspi) which comes down to 2,4Eur/W/Y. Just for my curiosity though, Where did your 1Eur come from? The prices were >20ct for 10 years now. Or do you calculate without taxes and stuff?

I suppose it was a "left over" from my time in France where the price was just above 10ct/kWh.

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#209

Post by lucb1e »

xuki wrote: post #144
lucb1e wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Colo costs are just insane compared to consumer prices. At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not. Advantages: - fast LAN speeds, - don't need to go anywhere to do hardware maintenance/replacement/additions, - low cost, - partially solar powered if you have solar panels, - don't need to make things fit in a rack (can be a raspberry pi, an old laptop, or whatever you like)…

> At home: 12 or 42 €/month (details¹), depending on whether I want gigabit upload or not. Your consumer gigabit connection is not comparable to a DC gigabit connection. Your ISP is over subscribing 20x and hoping people don’t use anywhere near their capacity. To make it fair you should compare it to a business plan with a proper SLA.

> business plan with a proper SLA

If I am that serious, then I'd also want the redundant power and would have a budget for it. For business, 130€/month is going to be a fraction of the cost of your first employee. The scenario posed was "as a normal consumer".

Re: Hetzner Price Adjustment

#210

Post by Timshel »

bombcar wrote: post #166
Timshel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.... ) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ ( https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A…

You can get some pretty cheap fridges https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-r... - but as you suspect it's post-facto justification of a purchase someone wanted to make anyway. Once you account for manufacturing and disposal, running the older is probably almost always better.

Yes and it even has a lower energy usage : ~300kw/h :). But since you probably upgraded from a similar one then you are probably more inline with the 60$ I mention at the end and not 200$.

From what I understand high end fridge are often less efficient because of features like ice fountain or freezer in the lower part with drawers instead of doors.

Anyway I'm thinking it's probably not just post-facto justification because it looks too much like a seller pitch and wondering where it comes from. I'm French and I had never heard it.

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