Google’s caste-bias problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#151

Post by thunkshift1 » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

John23832 wrote: post #19

(Outside looking in perspective. I am not Indian.) When I worked as a software engineer are capital one earlier in my career, thus was a very noticeable trend. You had entire teams/groups (and to some extent geographical regions given the way the capital one workforce was split between Richmond Virginia, McLean Virginia, and NYC) where particular castes grouped together. It became particularly acute when you took int…

I am curious to know.. how did you know of their caste? Its not something that comes up in office conversations

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#152

Post by lampshades » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:01 PM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #149

lampshades wrote: post #80

Friendly reminder that white people are shot by cops at a very high rate and yes, all lives do matter. Regardless of what the New Yorker thinks. Edit: Bring in the downvotes, I welcome them. It’s clear to me that white lives don’t matter to the HN crowd, but that doesn’t surprise me at all considering the main people who come here are white people from California who grew up in completely white society and now have a…

> white people are shot by cops at a very high rate If you think that cops target white folks then you must probably be an avid supporter of reforming law enforcement.

Yes, I am an avid supporter of reforming our increasingly militarized police force, why wouldn’t I be?

And to be clear, I don’t think cops “target white people” just like I don’t think cops “target black people”. Cops have an aggression problem, are trigger happy, and poorly trained.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#153

Post by jaywalk » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

thisiscorrect wrote: post #140

jaywalk wrote: post #66

> The Google spokesperson told The New Yorker, "We made the decision not to move forward with this proposed talk which was pulling employees apart rather than bringing our community together and raising awareness." If the talk was standard DEI fare (shitting on white men) I'm sure any complaints would have been ignored.

I doubt the complaints would be ignored. It'd be fair to assume that the complainant might face consequences for not going along with the program.

That's very true. The retaliation would go against the complainants instead of the person who wanted to put on the talk.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#154

Post by jrsj » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:02 PM UTC

SauciestGNU wrote: post #148

jrsj wrote: post #70

I've also heard rumors about discrimination by Indian managers against non-Indian employees at the largest employers in my city. I'm inclined to believe this is true as I've heard from multiple people who worked there that most of engineering management consists of upper caste Indians now but that group represents a relatively small minority of engineering as a whole. I wonder if these two things are connected. In so…

This rings somewhat true but I have no proof. What I do know is that when I was searching for a new job recently is I had nearly 100% success making it to a full loop interview with non-Indian hiring managers/tech screeners, and I never advanced in the hiring process when the initial manager screening me was Indian.

I've seen something similar from the other side except it appeared to be religious discrimination. We had a new CTO who was Pakistani and not a single candidate we interviewed made it past a phone screen with him who wasn't Muslim. They were primarily Pakistani as well but also Iranian. It was a very bizarre thing to watch and my coworker who reported this to HR was reprimanded for "racism" and let go soon after.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#155

Post by thot_experiment » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:04 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #126

jrsj wrote: post #70

I've also heard rumors about discrimination by Indian managers against non-Indian employees at the largest employers in my city. I'm inclined to believe this is true as I've heard from multiple people who worked there that most of engineering management consists of upper caste Indians now but that group represents a relatively small minority of engineering as a whole. I wonder if these two things are connected. In so…

It's abundantly clear that any discrimination against non-favored groups is ignored and in cases promoted/celebrated. Heck, I live in a country with anti-white and pro-black laws/regulations. Minorities here plainly get denied jobs due to the color of their skin and no one bats an eye. I'm all for fairness for all, no matter their race, but seeing what I've seen in person is very eye opening. I no longer have sympath…

white + male is still obviously the best build for life and it still needs more nerfs, but the devs are all playing white male and think the balance is fine

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#156

Post by glibmelody » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:05 PM UTC

I've read the details of the original california lawsuit against cisco, and it seemed to be a blatant attempt by the accuser to get back at his colleague and manager, in the guise of caste discrimination. It was subsequently sensationalized by the media.

- The accuser was hired to a coveted project by the manager, where every member was among the highest paid employees in Cisco (millions in total take home). Even among those people, the accuser was among the highest paid.

- The accuser was supposedly discriminated by not getting a $5,000 raise after the annual performance appraisals.

- The accuser was passed over for promotion, but the person appointed as the leader / successor by the manager was also of the same, supposedly discriminated caste.

- The accuser and the manager went to school together, studied every class for 4 years together, and the accuser was hired to this coveted position by this supposedly discriminatory manager.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#157

Post by thunkshift1 » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:08 PM UTC

woweoe wrote: post #125

If someone wants some more background information. A few decades ago during the Cold War, there were several large scale anti-caste movements, and this caused a lot of the moneyed upper caste (note that many of the upper caste are poor) to flee to the US where money often open doors. The immigration to the UK and the other English speaking countries tended to be more varied and more middle class based on skills (doct…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#158

Post by treis » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:08 PM UTC

jrsj wrote: post #70

I've also heard rumors about discrimination by Indian managers against non-Indian employees at the largest employers in my city. I'm inclined to believe this is true as I've heard from multiple people who worked there that most of engineering management consists of upper caste Indians now but that group represents a relatively small minority of engineering as a whole. I wonder if these two things are connected. In so…

Happened at one of my previous jobs too. We called them the Indian Mafia because it was like Cosa Nostra minus the crime.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#159

Post by carapace » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:08 PM UTC

The Indian caste system is Google's problem to solve?

Let's talk about Google's caste system.

There are at least two main castes at Google: The "Googlers" who get all the perks, and the support staff who do all the work and get far fewer perks. The upper caste gets meals, those nifty buses, medical care, etc. The lower caste does not get all those things (I think they get meals, but not in the same cafeteria) and they are specifically trained not to get familiar with the upper caste. In fact, they can get in trouble for fraternizing with the "real" Googlers.

It's worth noting that the upper caste is made up mostly of white, Chinese, or Indian folks while the lower caste is mostly Mexican (in CA that means anyone from south of the border from Mexico to Chile and Argentina), Filipino, and some Arab people. (There are very few black people working at Google.)

Google is progressive in the sense that they don't hate their servant class, but they are just as caste-conscious, if you will, as Indian culture.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#160

Post by jrsj » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

treis wrote: post #158

jrsj wrote: post #70

I've also heard rumors about discrimination by Indian managers against non-Indian employees at the largest employers in my city. I'm inclined to believe this is true as I've heard from multiple people who worked there that most of engineering management consists of upper caste Indians now but that group represents a relatively small minority of engineering as a whole. I wonder if these two things are connected. In so…

Happened at one of my previous jobs too. We called them the Indian Mafia because it was like Cosa Nostra minus the crime.

I think we sort of ignore this as an industry because we still look at DE&I primarily through the lense of representation and proportions and not in terms of actual power being wielded for the benefit of an in-group at the expense of the out-group. You don't need to be an outright majority to wield political power like that. And it can easily go against industry wide trends in the context of a specific company too if cliques like this form.