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Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

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Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#31

My main issue with low-code/no-code is that it attempts to solve the complexity problem, without understanding what "complexity" is. Code is perceived to be complex, but when you look deeply into what people mean when they say that, it's almost entirely a social perception. They see these weird characters and it looks like gibberish and they assume that the people who understand this gibberish are somehow on another…

IMHO there's no such thing as "no code" or "low code". It's "bad code". Or less catchy programming languages that usually lack the tools and features that widely used programming languages do.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#32

My main issue with low-code/no-code is that it attempts to solve the complexity problem, without understanding what "complexity" is. Code is perceived to be complex, but when you look deeply into what people mean when they say that, it's almost entirely a social perception. They see these weird characters and it looks like gibberish and they assume that the people who understand this gibberish are somehow on another…

The classic Mythical Man Month makes a crucial distinction between "accidental" and "essential" complexity. Accidental complexity is stuff that it is in your solution, but is not necessary. For example, you added a layer of abstraction that ultimately isn't necessary and doesn't have benefits outweighing the costs. Essential complexity is intrinsic to the problem itself. For example, if you write software to help you file your taxes, you have a certain fundamental amount of complexity that no amount of clever code can get you around, because the problem itself is complicated.

One of the core errors of the most breathless low-/no-code advocacy is that they clearly see that code as it stands today is very complicated, but they think it's all accidental complexity. If we just did the right things... if we just made it easy enough... if we just had the right visual user interface... all this complexity could go away! And then anyone could code! And lo, Utopia would emerge.

There is a grain of truth in this. Code does have accidental and unnecessary complexity. Some traditions and codebases have more, some have less. The low-/no-code approaches can help with this... though I have to qualify it a bit because at times they add their own accidental complexity to problems that traditional approaches don't. But they can be easier sometimes, certainly.

The problem is that even a hypothetically perfect low-/no-code solution with absolutely zero accidental complexity still wouldn't do anything to eliminate the essential complexity of the problems people want solved. I don't care how amazing your no-code UI is. I don't care how visual it is, and how you can grab any 12-year-old off the street and show them your UI and they can grasp everything that's going on. I don't care how much work you put into it. If someone tries to use it to create a tax preparation service, they are going to ram face first into the brick wall of the essential complexity of the problem.

No matter what you do, there are going to be people in the future who have developed a skill set in dealing with that sort of thing, and it isn't going to be a skillset everyone develops to the same degree. Even if you stipulate a domain expert who knows literally everything about the tax code, it will still be a distinct skill to learn how to explain that correctly to a computer, even a zero-accidental-complexity computer.

It is further inevitable that the people dedicated to that will have their own toolset that tunes the expertise and power level to the fact that they are able to pour more time into developing skills that have a longer-term payoff than people who are "programming" for six hours a year.

It is literally impossible for low-/no-code to take over. Even if I pushed a magic button that replaced everything in the world with low-/no-code solutions right now, the world would still bifurcate into the people who further develop their skills with the system, learn how to use it efficiently and effectively, and people who do other things like build houses, provide clean water, etc. The only way to make it so there is no such thing as a "programmer" is to forcibly cap the capability of the universal low-/no-code system so low that there is no way to become better at it, which is just inconceivable.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#33
I disagree with this opinion "Anyone marketing a low or no code tool to developers is targeting the wrong audience"

Switched-on developers are a perfect market for good no-code/low-code tools. If a tool is 100 times more productive, why on earth would a smart developer not use it to deliver value to their customers??

I wrote a complete ERP and CRM system using our No-code platform - this would have been impossible for a single person using traditional tools such as Java. I've written a couple of blog posts explaining why the rise of No-Code/Low code is inevitable.

https://www.onedb.online/blog/why_no_code_is_better_than_ful...

https://www.onedb.online/blog/the_future_for_software_engine...

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#34

My main issue with low-code/no-code is that it attempts to solve the complexity problem, without understanding what "complexity" is. Code is perceived to be complex, but when you look deeply into what people mean when they say that, it's almost entirely a social perception. They see these weird characters and it looks like gibberish and they assume that the people who understand this gibberish are somehow on another…

To expand on this, you will have to house the complexity somewhere. For low/no code tools, it's swept under the rug, or rather, under layers of abstraction. I don't think it's a good idea (in a disruptive-amount of cases) to deviate from the simplicity of straight forward code. We are growing closer and eventually will realize as a society that programming doesn't have to be hard or scary. I'm sure that the futuristi…

Totally agree. I've been working on a programming language for UI designers, but it's been years and I doubt I'll ever release it at this point. The idea was to offer a syntax that conforms to their vocabulary and mental models. So if you were designing a button:

  elements
    shape Wrapper
      text Label

  style Wrapper
    fill: blue

  style Label
    content: Click Me
    fill: white
edit: no harm in sharing the demo page that I never released. Warning - it's very broken. But it kinda works: https://matry.design/demo

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#36

My main issue with low-code/no-code is that it attempts to solve the complexity problem, without understanding what "complexity" is. Code is perceived to be complex, but when you look deeply into what people mean when they say that, it's almost entirely a social perception. They see these weird characters and it looks like gibberish and they assume that the people who understand this gibberish are somehow on another…

Exactly. It’s procedural writing at the end of the day: designed by humans, for humans to write.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#37
I'd say yes, but not in the way you think.

It's still programming, just a trying to be nice. Here and there it makes programming worse by e.g. not being very object oriented sometimes, but overall it always tries to make everything as high level as possible.

High level programming languages on top of low level ones have been a hit ever since. The day I can plug together APIs and basic user management will be great: Make default user UI with login, profile, picture, make a twitter-style feed where everyone can subscribe to others. This I imagine possible within a day.

Ideally you also wrap some APIs for me so I can e.g. take my existing twitter feed and do stuff with it. We are not too far from all that, but if you want to do one custom step you are back at jumping in to a lower level and need to build components yourself and it's just even more annoying :).

It also has a way better chance with narrow use cases and is very successful there: chat bot builders, configuration of headless CMS admin UIs, analytics tools, KNIME even try machine learning and it looks wonderful.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#38
They are already. I consult for a lot of hyper-early-stage YC startups as they formulate their plans and I've had two separate clients in the past 6 months go the no-code route to build their MVP. At first I was against it, but having seen these clients go through it I would say it is much cheaper and less risky and gives developers an extremely good blueprint for when the founders inevitably decide to go beyond the MVP stage and build their own codebase. No-code platforms are a great way for non-technical (and even technical!) founders to do that hard product work of figuring out what they actually want their app to do and how each screen should work. Things like figma let you do this too, but I find founders will often make something in figma with logic holes or missing flows if they aren't thinking like an engineer. The no-code platforms force you to make these decisions because you'll notice the holes the moment you go to use the app instead of noticing them when your developers go to implement something that doesn't make sense. Much cheaper way to do early iteration.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#39

No. But we will continue to see domain-specific tooling that require less "coding". There are plenty of "no/low code" CRUD app builders, tools that manipulate components on a canvas to create web pages, even tools to integrate different systems together. But the second you need to go off the trail, you've now got a big problem: you're constrained to doing things that don't break the no/low code environment, and that'…

>But we will continue to see domain-specific tooling that require less "coding"

100% agreed

Came up in another thread recently but Unreal Blueprints is a good example of that https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US/blueprints-visual-sc...

It's robust and perfectly fine, you can even build full games without any coding at all.

Is it useful? Yes, but it would never replace "real" coding. Yet I'm excited to see any advancement on the field because it still feels like "magic" to some extent.

Re: Will low and no code tools ever truly disrupt tech development?

#40
Depends on the use case.

As someone without a lot of budget to hire devs, I currently use no code in my company extensively, our Airtable has 50 tables, some of them with > 10k records.

There is certain excitement to do all in no-code now, but the ceiling is truly there as the article says, the rule of thumb is that if something is operational and not core for business we do in low code, if it is business critical (we lose money if goes down) then it gets coded.

What happens if our business goes down, and is fault? We can't just say "welp" to our customers complaints, recently we saw that not even Atlassian is immune to long outages.

Also what happens when the market needs for you to do "X" and the tool can't? Now you are stuck in a low-code environment with 3 months migration while the competitors pass ahead. We also got a lot of bugs with this tools on things that were supposed to work, and it slowed us down significantly.

From what I see that the best use case of low code is kickstarting software projects. If done with the right tool (one that allows for easy exporting), it allows to get the data in order for future scaling with code.

Since changing application logic in a living project (and even the entire language / framework) happens all the time, but the data generally does not, this seems like a best case scenario for a new feature or product that still needs to validate their market fit.

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