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The Case for Degrowth

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Re: The Case for Degrowth

#251

Post by whatarethembits »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #198
WalterBright wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If countries don't want a brain drain, perhaps they should adopt more of the policies of countries their brains are escaping to.

Did you seriously just tell entire countries "have you tried not being poor?"

There's no honour in getting your family killed by illiterate religious fanatics based on how your name sounds "for the greater good". So yes, the onus IS on those large collection of people (country) to recognise that their stone age era values and behaviours are driving away people who might give them a fighting chance to compete in the modern world.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#252

Post by zmgsabst »

imtringued wrote: post #146
zmgsabst wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You will have to explain how reducing growth dependence reduces agency. Your process of “reducing growth dependence” is fundamentally you stifling and regimenting growth. You don’t have a fundamental right to moderate my growth, against my wishes — but I do have a fundamental right to seek growth.

I don't know what kind of absurd logic you are following but you seem to hate the ability to choose between having degrowth, zero growth and some growth on the individual level. Your preconceived notions of growth force it upon every single individual one, in the current economic system there is no choice, you are going to follow the authoritarian "growthers" or you are going to be a laughing stock. You are actively…

> Your position: Giving everyone the choice to not pick growth is bad. You must pick growth because I said so.

This isn’t even close to what I said — in fact, it’s the complete opposite.

You can re-read my original comment, which is about others forcing their choices onto me.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#253

Post by roflyear »

coldtea wrote: post #175
roflyear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. No one talks about it (wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for mentioning it) but Japan is mad racist. They do not like foreigners.

> There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. Because the US was created as a ragtag coalition of immigrants from all kinds of countries. Their whole shtick is based on being a melting pot. Japan is a much more ethnically homogenous nation. Besides, this coming of immigrants didn't work so well for the natives in the US (the native Ame…

I have been to Japan, I know people who are Japanese, and I know people who have successfully and unsuccessfully immigrated to Japan. This is all anecdotal, but they will all laugh and tell me in private that yeah, Japanese people (especially older generations) are extremely racist.

Even the UN says Japan is racist!! https://web.archive.org/web/20070329065052/http://www.unic.o...

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#254

Post by roflyear »

oska wrote: post #102
roflyear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. No one talks about it (wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for mentioning it) but Japan is mad racist. They do not like foreigners.

> No one talks about it People talk about it all the time, especially on toxic forums filled with foreigners opining about Japan like r/japan. There are many reasons why immigration is not the silver bullet you think it is (some of which have been given by other replies). But the important thing is that Japan and the Japanese get to decide where to take their society and no one else . Telling the Japanese what they s…

Immigration has MANY MANY issues. But it is the only realistic way to solve the issue of Japan's declining population. I do not think it is a silver bullet.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#255

Post by roflyear »

imgabe wrote: post #110
oska wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one talks about it People talk about it all the time, especially on toxic forums filled with foreigners opining about Japan like r/japan. There are many reasons why immigration is not the silver bullet you think it is (some of which have been given by other replies). But the important thing is that Japan and the Japanese get to decide where to take their society and no one else . Telling the Japanese what they s…

I don't think anyone is under the impression that the country of Japan is obligated to do what some random Internet commenter thinks. People are allowed to have opinions that something would be a good course of action or not. That's not paternalism.

Absolutely, thank you. I don't honestly care what Japan does. I'm not Japanese. I just think that the only realistic solution for them is to increase immigration.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#256

Post by roflyear »

llanowarelves wrote: post #139
roflyear wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Japan wants to keep their systems running they need immigration. Or they will have to drastically alter their lifestyles.

Why? They will and already are leading the charge on automation. Most people's jobs can be automated. In this way, the US is like the Antebellum South, preferring servants driving their economy instead of adopting advances in tech, like the "North" in this metaphor (Japan) forced the necessity of creating.

Soon their pension and other systems in place to support their aging population will not be able to be supported by those working. Where will the money come from? There needs to be someone there to work. The labor force has to come from somewhere.

There are a lot of immigrants looking for jobs. Billions.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#257

Post by roflyear »

walleeee wrote: post #90
roflyear wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Japan wants to keep their systems running they need immigration. Or they will have to drastically alter their lifestyles.

We will all have to drastically alter our lifestyles and the longer we wait the harder it'll be

I agree, but that is really hard. It only comes by force.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#258

Post by roflyear »

anigbrowl wrote: post #178
roflyear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. No one talks about it (wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for mentioning it) but Japan is mad racist. They do not like foreigners.

The US does this well Not lately. The immigration system is a mess full of perverse incentives, and was deliberately engineered that way in the mid-90s to maximize dysfunction.

Well, the US, unlike other huge countries (india, china, etc..) is not forcasted to have population decline in the next 100 years. This is primarily b/c of immigration.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#259

Post by roflyear »

ETH_start wrote: post #124
roflyear wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. No one talks about it (wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for mentioning it) but Japan is mad racist. They do not like foreigners.

I mean Japan has a much lower crime rate than the US, and no massive opioid epidemic, huge homeless camps in the middle of major cities or elderly Asian people being randomly assaulted on the streets like the US does, so I don't know why it should follow in the footsteps of the US. The US should set an example that others want to follow.

I doubt Japan has a lower crime rate. You would have to look past just reported numbers. The US arrests a lot of people and Japan only pursues crimes they can solve 100% due to political reasons.

Re: The Case for Degrowth

#260

Post by coldtea »

sokoloff wrote: post #181
coldtea wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is an obvious way out. Increase immigration. The US does this well. Why doesn't Japan? Because of racism and xenophobia. Because the US was created as a ragtag coalition of immigrants from all kinds of countries. Their whole shtick is based on being a melting pot. Japan is a much more ethnically homogenous nation. Besides, this coming of immigrants didn't work so well for the natives in the US (the native Ame…

In what sense does the US “have a huge majority of blacks in jail”? This initially seemed hyperbolic and when I looked quickly at the numbers, it still seems hyperbolic.

Not as in a huge majority of black population in jail.

As in, a huge majority of blacks in jails (jail population being disproportionally black).

Blacks are about 40% of the jail population and 14% of the general population.

Even if this is because blacks indeed commit more crimes, this points to the conditions blacks are forced to live (discrimination, poorly funded school districts, redlining, trouble getting loans, etc.) that force them to do so. But we also know that traditionally courts treat blacks harsher (to the point of there being special laws against blacks for most of the 20th century, from Jim Crow to seggregation laws, and of course, seemingly neutral laws used covertly with much more force against blacks, like drug laws, three strikes, and so on).

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