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Google’s caste-bias problem

newyorker.com

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Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#51

Post by ReptileMan »

40acres wrote: post #34

How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.

Well most people that immigrate not trough the south border or diversity visa are usually middle class or up in their country of origin.

The easiest way to get to live in the US is to have money.

The southern border is the new ellis island trough which the great unwashed can enter.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#53

Post by [deleted] »

wikitopian wrote: post #50

One of the best features of homesourcing, one that everybody is thinking about but nobody is discussing, is that it completely sidesteps the need to arrive at a universal, global workplace monoculture. People can be truly diverse, including in ways that other people find offensive, objectionable, or unacceptable, when they're not forced to share the same physical spaces. The question of how google should solve the co…

[deleted]

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#54

Post by armchairhacker »

AuthorizedHelp wrote: post #16

I always find it funny how there are massive east asian only groups in all major corporate entities. This is not diversity, this is racism. Nice work FANG.

In my university I find that a lot of the Indian and Asian students like to group together and form their own groups.

But they also have a big language barrier: they don’t speak English well and in their groups they always communicate natively. They also have a culture barrier as well, combined with the language barrier this makes them seem awkward.

So I don’t blame them.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#55

Post by lotsofpulp »

ReptileMan wrote: post #51
40acres wrote: post #34

How would a non Indian person even tell? Is it really all in the last name? I've worked with a fair amount of Indian folks with a wide variety of names - how would you even go about determining someone's caste? Based on this article it sounds like most people who end up in Big Tech will be upper caste.

Well most people that immigrate not trough the south border or diversity visa are usually middle class or up in their country of origin. The easiest way to get to live in the US is to have money. The southern border is the new ellis island trough which the great unwashed can enter.

Assuming caste maps to socioeconomic status, the situation is the same for Indians and non Indians around the world.

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#56

Post by chadash »

dcolkitt wrote: post #31
_fat_santa wrote: post #24

I don't know why Google (or really all the tech companies in SV) aren't taking this far more seriously. I feel like it opens them up to lawsuits and with the weight they hold, a company like Google can easily institute a zero tolerance policy against it. Send a message that if you do this, you're getting kicked to the curb.

Caste is not a protected class in US employment law. Arguably there might be a basis for a suit if you could show that it reasonably projects onto an existing protected class, but it's not clear to me that you could.

Not to say that this is authoritative, but an article in the Harvard Law Review argues that "caste discrimination is a type of racial discrimination, religious discrimination, and national origin discrimination — all covered under Title VII".

Nonetheless, my hunch is that legal or not legal, this kind of discrimination would be extremely unpalatable to most Americans across the political spectrum.

https://harvardlawreview.org/2021/06/title-vii-and-caste-dis...

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#57

Post by [deleted] »

isoprophlex wrote: post #9

As someone doing management in a company that hires many Indian workers, both in on-shore and off-shore teams, this is a highly relevant topic for me. I'm a native western european so I'm likely blind to some extend for these issues. Like the article says, this sounds like harmful class-ism that silences or disadvantages specific groups, but not in an "obviously" racist manner based on skin color. Anyone care to shar…

[deleted]

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#58

Post by mtalantikite »

metadaemon wrote: post #43
vsr_pg wrote: post #35

I take no position on the broader issue of the article, but I was shocked to see that Isaac Chotiner (a repeat India-related article writer at New Yorker) failed to mention that Narendra Modi is an OBC in the context of describing the BJP's caste base. Truly, an egregious oversight and one that misleads readers.

What do OBC and BJP stand for?

OBC: "Other backward class" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class

BJP: Bharatiya Janata Party, which is the right wing Hindu nationalist party that is in power in India (of which Modi is a part of) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharatiya_Janata_Party

Re: Google’s caste-bias problem

#60

Post by Aunche »

>Numerous employees within the company expressed the view that any talk on caste discrimination was offensive to them as Hindus, and made them feel unsafe.

>You don’t get to claim or hijack one form of discrimination to perpetuate another form.

And yet from the Hindu's perspective, this is exactly what Gupta is doing. The only instances of caste discrimination Gupta can recall are anecdotes of "coded speech". Meanwhile, I'm sure that many Hindus feel that anti-caste-discrimination is coded speech. If there's a lesson to be learned, it's that using feelings as a rationale for argument is completely counterproductive.

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