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Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

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Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#61

Post by worldshit »

sparrish wrote: post #21
becquerel wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can choose who we work for (sometimes), but we can't choose not to work at all. Our engagement in the capitalist labour market is mandatory; otherwise we starve to death. Doesn't sound like we have much control over our labour to me.

Visit any large city in the US and you'll find hundreds or thousands who have made that choice. They line the sidewalks and alleys. Yes, you have that choice; you may not like the lifestyle it provides but you have that choice.

but you don't have the choice of living like a hunter-gatherer, because all good lands have been swallowed up by capitalist megacommunities

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#62

Post by balfirevic »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #33
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm concerned my response will be taken poorly so I will try to phrase this well. I hope you take this in the manner I intend it - with love in my heart. We, as humans, are only entitled to what we can ourselves provide. To believe otherwise may be to hoist the black flag to take from others that which they did not earn. Now, we as people are also compassionate and we want the elderly to not starve and we want the in…

> We, as humans, are only entitled to what we can ourselves provide. So then why do we have inherited wealth, why not ban that. Make things equitable, born with nothing but you can scavenge yourself. > To believe otherwise may be to hoist the black flag to take from others that which they did not earn. You mean like "private property"? Your logic only makes sense in an equitable world, where everyone is born equal, b…

>> We, as humans, are only entitled to what we can ourselves provide.

> So then why do we have inherited wealth, why not ban that.

It doesn't say that people are forbidden from having more than they themselves can provide. For example, if someone chooses to grant them some wealth voluntarily, as is the case with inheritance.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#63

Post by matheusd »

vladharbuz wrote: post #54
solar-ice wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the issue (in countries where you're not liable to be shot or accused by the police of running a cult or what-have-you) is that worker co-ops do not generally have access to significant capital or loans from VCs and banks which are scared of them, so cannot usually spend outside their means to grow - while companies that mesh well with current financialised society can. As a result, co-ops need to grow differ…

I'm very interested in this point! Do you think there is something about the structure of co-operatives that intrinsically makes them less attractive to investors? Or do you think that the fear you mentioned is just a result of them being currently unconventional, and this problem will be fixed once we culturally become more open to alternative ways of organising work?

We could ask! This is HN, which a non-insignificant cohort of various types of investors (angels, VCs, maybe bankers?) visit.

So let's open a couple of Ask HN/Pool HN: Are you an investor? Did you invest in a coop-like startup? Would you invest in a coop-like startup? Under which conditions?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#64

Post by drivers99 »

snidane wrote: post #7

Another Marxist in a new coat. Good analysis, wrong prescription. Been there, done that, ended up badly. Look into Georgism, that's where the cool kids are now. You don't need a revolution, you need a minor shift in tax code that you haven't thought of yet. It's not the problem of your employer that prices around you increase, so don't make them a villain that you can't pay your rent. Go complain to your slumlord for…

Re: Georgism/LVT I’ve gotten interested in how it affects land use.

I’ll check out that long video (listening now, sounds like they get past the introductions at the 30 minute mark) but here’s a couple shorter videos about it meanwhile. The guest of the podcast’s articles are here: https://gameofrent.com/

https://youtu.be/jFQgOy-5Tng Land Value Taxation and the Built Environment (10 min)

https://youtu.be/h0DvT8_6Hx0 What are the on-the-ground effect of the land value tax? Lesson from the Pennsylvania experience (5 min)

https://youtu.be/wHwFyXDx2_U (28 min) For the Land is Mine. An old documentary with more philosophical/economic background of the idea.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#65

Post by vladharbuz »

matheusd wrote: post #63
vladharbuz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very interested in this point! Do you think there is something about the structure of co-operatives that intrinsically makes them less attractive to investors? Or do you think that the fear you mentioned is just a result of them being currently unconventional, and this problem will be fixed once we culturally become more open to alternative ways of organising work?

We could ask! This is HN, which a non-insignificant cohort of various types of investors (angels, VCs, maybe bankers?) visit. So let's open a couple of Ask HN/Pool HN: Are you an investor? Did you invest in a coop-like startup? Would you invest in a coop-like startup? Under which conditions?

This is a wonderful idea. I'll try to draft something like this, but if you post this yourself, or notice it posted by someone else with more experience in the VC world than me, would you please ping me? Contact details at https://vladh.net. :)

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#66

Post by VictorPath »

anm89 wrote: post #58

Keep writing! We are just one or two more articles from everyone susddenly realizing that capitalism is mean and overthrowing the system. What will we do afterwards? Who cares! That's not nearly as much fun as whining.

> whining

We workers are bombarded consistently with whining about estate taxes, carry interest and that sort of thing. Actually the recent senate bill was held up over the fight over carried interest, a fight which was won by the funds.

However when the workers who create all the wealth press for their interests, it is "whining".

Insofar as the afterwards, to quote Malcolm X "anywhere is better than here".

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#67

Post by vladharbuz »

badpun wrote: post #60
vladharbuz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right that people can absolutely form co-operatives. However, if I wanted to work on, say, World of Warcraft, I could hardly show up and demand Blizzard be turned into a co-operative. Maybe you meant “well, if people are so upset by the status quo, why don't they just all quit and form their own co-operatives to make Starcraft 3?”. This is a great point, and a really interesting question. I think we should al…

> However, if I wanted to work on, say, World of Warcraft, I could hardly show up and demand Blizzard be turned into a co-operative. You can always start a co-op which makes a WoW clone. Nothing stops people from that. The fact that it's practically never done says a lot about real-life applicability of co-ops.

Do you think that just because something is not regularly done, that automatically means it is bad or not feasible? Relatedly, do you think the fact that our culture has somewhat of a focus on individual economic success and the accumulation of power might have something to do with the fact that co-operatives are not at the forefront of our radar?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#68

Post by hef19898 »

janandonly wrote: post #2

> Since Taylor, management gurus, led by the Toyota Corporation, devised “lean production,” with its systematic hiring, work teams, cross-training, just-in-time inventories, and kaizen. This last, Japanese for “constant improvement,” is an insidious form of continuous speed-up. Management stresses the production system—by, for example, taking away a team member or speeding up an assembly line—and work teams are press…

This is propably the biggest missrepresentation of TPS I have read in a while.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#69

Post by badcppdev »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #35
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. speak for yourself, i sure as hell can't.

I believe that the point of life is to become more than we are. My friend - grow to where you can. I wish you the best.

Your wishes are worth zero.

- Would you be willing to oppose corporations controlling the government with bribes/campaign contributions? - Support a judicial system where poorer people can access justice? - Tell your representatives that wage theft should be punished as seriously as theft and fraud?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#70

Post by [deleted] »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #35
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. speak for yourself, i sure as hell can't.

I believe that the point of life is to become more than we are. My friend - grow to where you can. I wish you the best.

[deleted]
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