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Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

counterpunch.org

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Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#11

Post by libertine »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

>#1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for.

Sometimes this is not straight forward for example when you have some responsibilities in your life, or when your career is too specialized with little to no transferable skill (like when you´re proficient at an internal process of a company).

Unless we could quit and be self sustainable without a job, then yes, at that point you could say one can quit anytime we want to find another place to work for.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#12

Post by vladharbuz »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #5

If you took all the income from the billionaires and distributed it evenly, the average person wouldn't even get a 2% raise. If you took all the wealth and distributed it evenly, the a average person wouldn't even get $500. In the US - Billionaires have $1.3T: https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaires/ That's ~$3880 per US person. Globally, there's a lot more people, and countries aren't as rich as the US. Eve…

This is true, but I have a slightly different question to ask. Imagine you work at, say, a game development company, along with 99 other developers. The only other member of the company is a CEO and shareholder, who decides how much to keep for himself and how much to pay the employees, but, importantly, does none of the actual work himself.

Let's say the game is wildly successful and the employees are collectively paid 60% of the profit, with the remaining 40% going to the sole shareholder. This is not an uncommon arrangement, and it is allowed and encouraged, culturally and legally.

Morally and practically speaking, not legally speaking, does this not amount to wage theft?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#13

Post by vt85 »

vladharbuz wrote: post #4
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

Why do you assume the only options are being controlled by a different self-serving employer, or having the government regulate everything? After all, shouldn't those who actually form the workforce of a company and shape the products and services it offers be in control? Why not have those who actually do the work collectively control the fate of the company, instead of having to hand over that power to someone else…

No post body was provided.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#14

Post by JoeAltmaier »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #5

If you took all the income from the billionaires and distributed it evenly, the average person wouldn't even get a 2% raise. If you took all the wealth and distributed it evenly, the a average person wouldn't even get $500. In the US - Billionaires have $1.3T: https://americansfortaxfairness.org/billionaires/ That's ~$3880 per US person. Globally, there's a lot more people, and countries aren't as rich as the US. Eve…

The thought that 'billionaires' are the problem is missing the point. There are folks worth the better part of $1T. They are a bigger part of the problem, by several orders of magnitude.

The systematic problems are, that the system is rigged so a tiny few skim from everything, leaving the absolute minimum they can get away with for the rest of us.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#15

Post by hotpotamus »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

Regarding number #1, why limit yourself to finding another place to work when crime is also an option? Though I suppose crime is work too.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#16

Post by lr4444lr »

vladharbuz wrote: post #4
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

Why do you assume the only options are being controlled by a different self-serving employer, or having the government regulate everything? After all, shouldn't those who actually form the workforce of a company and shape the products and services it offers be in control? Why not have those who actually do the work collectively control the fate of the company, instead of having to hand over that power to someone else…

Nothing significant stops people from forming worker collectives. Maybe it's telling that they're so uncommon?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#17

Post by vladharbuz »

0xy wrote: post #9

As opposed to communism, which will make everyone work like dogs so that the elite party members can be rich (like Maduro's goons). 100,000,000 dead but let's try it again, because that wasn't real communism.

Do you think the only available and conceivable options are two bad systems, and nothing else?

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#18

Post by OrangeMonkey »

becquerel wrote: post #6
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

We can choose who we work for (sometimes), but we can't choose not to work at all. Our engagement in the capitalist labour market is mandatory; otherwise we starve to death. Doesn't sound like we have much control over our labour to me.

I'm concerned my response will be taken poorly so I will try to phrase this well. I hope you take this in the manner I intend it - with love in my heart.

We, as humans, are only entitled to what we can ourselves provide. To believe otherwise may be to hoist the black flag to take from others that which they did not earn.

Now, we as people are also compassionate and we want the elderly to not starve and we want the infirm cared for. We have instituted social programs to cover these smaller cases. But, to believe that a normal human being can do nothing and that someone else will provide for them - wholesale across our country - doesn't seem very sustainable.

I'm not sure what you want, or I may be mischaracterizing your view - if so I apologize. If you can explain better your point or who would provide for those who don't want to, I would appreciate it.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#19

Post by VictorPath »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

> uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor...

> #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for.

We change who controls our labor by making those who control our labor us, the workers creating wealth, not the heirs who own companies and expropriate our surplus labor time via dividend profit checks.

The idea that a worker controls his own labor seems to be the one idea that is alien to your prescription.

Re: Work, Work, Work – So a Few Can Be Rich

#20

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

OrangeMonkey wrote: post #3

> Only a radical change in how work is done and who controls this can make labor once again an integral part of life, one through which we can fully develop our capacities as thinking, acting human beings. uhh. The article appears to suggest that we change who controls our labor... #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for. #2 - I assume they are railing against private individuals an…

> #1 - we do, we can quit anytime we want and find another place to work for.

speak for yourself, i sure as hell can't.

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