Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#391

Post by notatoad » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

a2tech wrote: post #345

notatoad wrote: post #287

>"I have at least two homes where I have to build a half-mile to get to one house," Mauch said, noting that it will cost "over $30,000 for each of those homes to get served." is this really a valuable use of taxpayer money? sending a wireless link over a half-mile isn't that difficult, surely there's a better way to spend $60k of public money than delivering internet service to two families. especially now that starl…

Especially since he's burying the lede about the people he's servicing--its true 'in general' that the area is lower income, but most of the homes he's serving will be millionaires.

without knowing specifics, that's kinda what i assumed. i see the same thing near where i live - the "low income rural areas" that get infrastructure subsidies is cottage country or areas with a lot of retirees who've moved to the country.

the actual low income people living in rural areas have to move to a suburb or a trailer park if their region isn't serviced by a utility, they don't get assistance like this.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#392

Post by JadeNB » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 1:53 AM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #364

Willish42 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There are tons of smaller businesses not focused on infinitely growing that get by just fine. Especially in rural areas like these

for every small business that "gets by", there are 2 (probably more) that go out of business due to not having grown sufficiently by the time they face some competition.

> for every small business that "gets by", there are 2 (probably more) that go out of business due to not having grown sufficiently by the time they face some competition.

If your goal is to fight a monopoly, then the mere existence of competition means that you've accomplished your goal.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#393

Post by rasz » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 1:55 AM UTC

lillecarl wrote: post #367

linsomniac wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, potentially, for locates. In my conversation with one of our local ISPs that for a while was doing fiber builds but then stopped, locates were quite a nuisance for them. This was in a less rural location though.

What's a "locate"?

The Modern Rogue How to Decode Utility Graffiti (Those Spray-Painted Codes on Streets) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6yBXkspLrE

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#394

Post by margarina72 » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #241

I greatly respect the initiative and scrappy-ness of someone doing this. And the legacy providers are clearly sitting on their monopoly position in a way that makes their pathetic alternative so starkly unattractive. But isn't it also true that once his network grows above a certain customer base (and gets into the maintenance phase), he will start to see all the effects that eat into being able to do this cheaply? N…

Not everything need to scale. A good way to handle this kind of project is keep it at a certain community size, and if people want in, beyond a certain threshold, they need to build their own. This is how federated internet providers work usually.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#395

Post by samstave » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

quercusa wrote: post #385

samstave wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FblQ00Ho That was my first ISP password assigned to me from San Jose based ix.netcom.com (Also the city I was grounded a month for running a $926 long distance bill calling into BBSs to play trade wars and the pit) But the best ISP I ever had was a 56K dial-up in Seattle. To play Diablo. I am looking to build an ISP.

I feel old having to hear netcom.com explained.

If you know my social and this netcom passwd, you may know my secrets...

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#396

Post by toss1 » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

rvnx wrote: post #94

toss1 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of taxes is to provide collective goods, such as infrastructure, defense, education. One of the first thing the US's founders did was create the postal service, which was to provide mail service to everyone, regardless of location; it literally costs the same to mail a letter across the street as to send it to some house in Whoknowswhere, Alaska. This provides a minimum communications infrastructure. One of…

I'm saying to allocate budget to maximize as much as possible the public/global interest. Yes it's nicer to have optic fiber, but this is somewhat luxury if Starlink exists, and if the gov funds it already. I'm sure some other people in the US need more these 30'000 USD than optic fiber to watch Netflix with a little less buffering. Budget could be used somewhere else (to build roads, or to support medicine/health, e…

On top of that, Starlink was just adjudged to NOT QUALIFY for this type of service. [1]

You cannot simply assume as you stated, that just because something looks like a viable solution, it is.

Again, the people that decided are doing the WORK of figuring out how to make the system work, in contrast to taking random potshots in an internet forum.

From the article: >> The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has rejected Starlink's application to receive $885.51 million in broadband funding

>>The FCC said that both Starlink and LTD "failed to meet program requirements," submitted "risky proposals," and that their "applications failed to demonstrate that the providers could deliver the promised service."

[1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/08/fcc-rejects-star...

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#397

Post by rasz » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:02 AM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #207

H1Supreme wrote: post #203

> 1Gbps with unlimited data for $79 a month Wow, sign me up. Comcast, which has a monopoly on my market, charges me a few bucks more per month, for 150mbps.

The costs for internet in the US still surprises me, how on earth can it be so expensive?! I understand some countries, but in the US, it seems high costs are because "because we can", not because it has to be like that. In comparison, you get 1 Gbps symmetric fiber connection in most countries in Europe for under ~$30/month. In some, you even get it for under $10/month (like Romania, which has surprisingly awesome i…

For comparison an hour of car mechanics time is <$30 in Romania, but ~$150 in US.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#398

Post by rasz » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:04 AM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #303

jrajav wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costs of deployment and profit margins have nothing to do with it. The US public has subsidized the cost of broadband internet deployment since the very birth of the internet, and continues to do so like clockwork every few years. Private ISPs continue to caress the books to make it seem like they're barely operating at a profit and still need more, without ever having delivered on the last promise. Taxpayers have pa…

The thing I can't really understand if this is the argument is where the money is actually going? With an on paper 11% profit margin it's certainly isn't shareholders, and even if the executives rake it would still be a blip in their total revenue.

It is precisely shareholders and executives. 11% profit margin but huge share buybacks, bonuses and acquisitions.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#399

Post by wyattpeak » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:13 AM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #364

Willish42 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. There are tons of smaller businesses not focused on infinitely growing that get by just fine. Especially in rural areas like these

for every small business that "gets by", there are 2 (probably more) that go out of business due to not having grown sufficiently by the time they face some competition.

I think this is a weird framing of the issue. Sure, lots of businesses go under, and maybe being larger would have saved them, but maybe not. Plenty of VC-funded businesses go under precisely because they tried to be too large, when they could have perfectly comfortably served a few satisfied initial clients for enough money to pay all their bills.

I think the idea that companies go under because they aren't ambitious enough says more about modern attitudes towards growth than it does about the reality of business.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#400

Post by Rackedup » Thu, Aug 11, 2022, 2:43 AM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #241

I greatly respect the initiative and scrappy-ness of someone doing this. And the legacy providers are clearly sitting on their monopoly position in a way that makes their pathetic alternative so starkly unattractive. But isn't it also true that once his network grows above a certain customer base (and gets into the maintenance phase), he will start to see all the effects that eat into being able to do this cheaply? N…

Are you saying that Comcast provides decent customer service? because I think it is probably the first or second reason everyone hates them... another one could be the doubling cost yearly unless you call them and are serious about cancelling.

Where I'm at Comcast is very reliable but I've had different experiences.