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“Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

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Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#331

Post by josh2600 »

shakna wrote: post #240
survirtual wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That poster was just trying to be inclusive, not trivialize. You are still part of a society composed of other humans. I think less division and more inclusivity in spite of differences is a good place to be, while still acknowledging the struggles / addressing problems of minorities without making them “special” aka outcasts. Ultimately, you choose how you react to something. You can choose to be offended and look a…

Would you tell a war veteran you understand them because you don't like loud noises? An amputee that you comprehend their pain because your knees feel old? Those are obviously not acceptable, and incredibly insensitive things to state. That is what this attempt at inclusivity does.

Everyone on this thread is making a lot of assumptions about my mental state. None of you know whether I am or am not autistic.

It's called a spectrum because there's a range. Some people are further out on the spectrum than others. Some people are autistic in one way but not another. One form of autism might be absolute pitch (distinct from perfect pitch in that you can hear semi-tones; Jacob Collier has this but might not choose to describe it as autism). It is a spectrum.

My point was that we are all somewhere on the spectrum. I don't pretend to be able to identify with anyone else's mental state, all I can narrate are my projections and the projections I receive back from others.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#332

Post by sp527 »

jackmott wrote: post #62
korijn wrote: post #3

It's interesting to me that all four examples put the blame with the other party. I hope it's just worded poorly or I am reading too much into it. Edit: I'm not saying that invalidates the article's content (in fact I recognize the situations from personal experience), but it doesn't really put a positive spin on it.

Yeah it is either a fantastic bit of art or hilarious lack of awareness of the irony. The guy actually reminds me of a coworker that I like a lot who is on the spectrum. Once in a meeting a manager was describing why we needed to do some task. Autistic coworker: “oh so we need to do it for political reasons”. and manager starts to freak out and backpedal trying to say its more than just political reasons. Autistic co…

How is that demonstrative of autism? Does not tolerating bullshit make a person autistic?

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#333

Post by afarrell »

prometheus76 wrote: post #114
larve wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for reading, author here! the article is very much a response to a blame already expressed. People can be wrong about factual things, which can be verified. Otherwise it’s a difference of opinions. These are my thoughts on why differences of opinions get phrased as “autistic people just can’t admit when they are wrong”, when myself and most autistic people I know in fact readily admit when we are wrong and mov…

The biggest insight I have had in my personal life is that relationships are more important than facts. Building and keeping long-term relationships at work and in my family is, by far, more important than being right every time (even if I can verify being right). Verifying it just makes the abrasion to the relationship worse.

A thing I have learned is that sometimes relationships rely upon facts -- or at least a shared view of facts. If the relationship includes you bearing responsibility for something, being factually correct about details within that sphere of responsibility does matter.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#334

Post by shakna »

josh2600 wrote: post #331
shakna wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you tell a war veteran you understand them because you don't like loud noises? An amputee that you comprehend their pain because your knees feel old? Those are obviously not acceptable, and incredibly insensitive things to state. That is what this attempt at inclusivity does.

Everyone on this thread is making a lot of assumptions about my mental state. None of you know whether I am or am not autistic. It's called a spectrum because there's a range. Some people are further out on the spectrum than others. Some people are autistic in one way but not another. One form of autism might be absolute pitch (distinct from perfect pitch in that you can hear semi-tones; Jacob Collier has this but mi…

> Everyone on this thread is making a lot of assumptions about my mental state. None of you know whether I am or am not autistic.

I'm sorry that you feel that I have done so, that wasn't my intention. I haven't commented directly on you, but on a common statement that is used in many places around the world. It's something said by the many, which is why I have commented on it within that context - as a cultural norm.

That common statement produces harm, by trivialising the experiences of some, which makes it harder for them to seek or gain accommodations. It produces an assumption of comprehension in some, where they realistically have none. People like those in HR, or team managers, can surreptitiously begin to believe that they fully understand, and so feel justified in denying more things.

That is all that I have sought to point out. Everyone may be on the spectrum, in the same manner that everyone is human, but that's not a helpful distinction.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#336

Post by sebastianconcpt »

A lot of the problems mentioned here are absolutely an issue for every intelligent human being, and not at all exclusive to autistic people. It might be more annoying to them? That I don't know but is hell of annoying for anyone that is high in industriousness.

I'm specially annoyed when the interlocutor puts the burden of his own lack of understanding in you when you're trying to make a point across. If they secretly declared war on your idea, they can pick the least generous interpretation of anything you're saying and pretend you are an ignorant and pose as dismissive because you or your idea are not worthy of their consideration.

Short term they might be appearing smart but you know it was like trying to teach how to play chess to a pigeon that only bumped all the pieces of the board and look you in the eye wondering why you are so stupid.

Plot twist: you might be a little bit stupid in a twisted way: you were too generous with the wrong person. Giving too much attention to the wrong toxic interlocutor.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#337

Post by cookiengineer »

dusted wrote: post #19

I read this as being strongly opinionated and egocentric.. I want to call it "ausplaining", this tendency to go "no no, YOU don't understand ME (because I'm special, not because I'm wrong)" whenever we get ourselves into situations like the exemplified. I do this A LOT as well, and when people do stick with me for long enough, I often find that I'm either getting my point across by re-framing my explanation, or disco…

Re: ausplaining

I've learned the hard way that caring too much about work related topics doesn't contribute to your happiness.

Company men will replace you if they can do their business math for justification, because they cannot see the technical complexities of the things they are "wanting to be built" for the company.

Even when you can see dependencies of complexities that will break the plan a year ahead of time, and you were right in complaining about it, it doesn't effectively help you as a person.

Being stuck in the past is just the same waste of energy as being angry about it. Hate and anger are infiltration techniques and should be treated as such.

People will always react based upon their own experiences and understanding, and if you actively try to fight the statistics (aka you vs your team) you will just hurt your perception.

Being seen as rude by other people gives you a strategival disadvantage for negotiation, and that will hurt the rate of adaption of your own suggestions. The ironic part is that people are even more petty than the "I told you so list" that you mentioned, only that they think subconcious pettiness of system1 isn't "petty" but only "a feeling" even though the mechanics and dynamics of it in a rational context are the same.

Work is work, and it will always be "just work". As an autist you have to learn that other people don't care about things as much as you would do (in a utopian star trek world). As a hu-man (literally meaning being that forgets) you have a very limited capacity of memory, computation power and energy.

And your efforts are far more efficiently spent outside the world of company politics, where most people are just busy 90% of the time with sidelining or attacking other departments for their own egomaniac benefits. Playing this game is a huge drain on energy (at least for me) and I therefore decided not to play it.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#338

Post by cat_plus_plus »

Also good for them if true. Adults must be resistant to worldview challenges or they will be taken advantage of and brainwashed. Admitting that one is wrong should require that: - The case is made through facts and reason rather than emotions - The challenger is willing to invest time into making his or her case and be as open minded about possibly being wrong as he/she wants me to be open minded about me being wrong - Significant practical harm of me continuing with my current position has to be demonstrated When people expect everyone to just change their minds to suit them, the issue is a personality disorder, not autism.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#339

Post by pelagicAustral »

anotherevan wrote: post #323
dusted wrote: post #19

I read this as being strongly opinionated and egocentric.. I want to call it "ausplaining", this tendency to go "no no, YOU don't understand ME (because I'm special, not because I'm wrong)" whenever we get ourselves into situations like the exemplified. I do this A LOT as well, and when people do stick with me for long enough, I often find that I'm either getting my point across by re-framing my explanation, or disco…

I like the term "ausplaining" as you've defined it, but I don't think I would ever start using it. If feels like it would end up being used dismissively. I also find "allistic" feels like a dismissive or slightly derogatory alternative to neurotypical. (To be clear, I do not thing the author was using it that way at all, it is just the reaction the word engenders in me.)

No post body was provided.

Re: “Autistic people can’t acknowledge when they’re wrong”

#340

Post by Invictus0 »

sebastianconcpt wrote: post #336

A lot of the problems mentioned here are absolutely an issue for every intelligent human being, and not at all exclusive to autistic people. It might be more annoying to them? That I don't know but is hell of annoying for anyone that is high in industriousness. I'm specially annoyed when the interlocutor puts the burden of his own lack of understanding in you when you're trying to make a point across. If they secretl…

I don't think it's fair to assume the counterparty here is a "toxic interlocutor". Communication is hard, very hard, and engineers typically suck at it. And it is absolutely the burden of the speaker to communicate their ideas properly to the listener; it sounds like you're saying "the way I explained it is good enough for me so if you didn't get it you're an idiot". Finally, "secretly declared war on your idea"? This sounds rather overdramatic.
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