Would turning off the beacon hide the AP from Google mapping? Are there any details how they detect APs exactly?
Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
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Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#12Does anyone have a reason for why this wifi mapping invades my privacy? I just can't see what makes it so wrong, I mean I am not ecstatic about my router mac and general area being tied together but is it easy for someone to find where I am based on what wifi I am connected to through a browser? The only time I see it being a problem is if you have malware and they are able to target you by location but depending on…
There was a vulnerability in dd-wrt a few months back, allowing anyone to get your router's mac addy -- then presumably they can lookup your MAC using a service such as this or skyhook to get your EXACT location (not just an IP address approximation) Here's the HN coverage of that: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2044371
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#13The person who wrote the article this link goes to doesn't seem to understand what Google's Wifi AP database is for. He seems to think it's going to be some searchable database instead of just used for device positioning. It would have been better to just post the link to the Google blog post instead of this misinformed blog.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#14Google is mapping publicly broadcast wifi access points to provide location services to augment GPS (faster locks for example) or when GPS is unavailable due to location or device. It's a very useful service - if you use a smartphone with mapping software, you likely benefit from this on a daily basis without realizing it. Apple does the same thing, although they collect it from user's iphones and ipads: http://www.a…
You are absolutely right, an opt-in system would destroy the whole location-by-wifi-ssid service for everyone.
...but that doesn't create leverage or a good reason for having such a poor and inelegant opt-out. This is an "ends justifies the means" argument, which is in itself Machiavellian.
From a different perspective, there are other ways Google could handle an opt-out list - such as letting people add their SSID/Mac Address to a central opt-out registry they maintain.
This would be trivial to implement, but I would suggest that Google have intentionally created a high-friction solution of "-nomap" to your SSID simply to make it as difficult and unpalatable as possible. And that really stinks.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#15Oh god, here we go again. Why doesn't Google (or a large portion of HN for that matter) ever learn? Privacy has a different meaning outside the US, and in many places, especially Europe, is strongly protected.
Just because the information is public doesn't mean you have the right to collect it and use it any way you see fit, and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't in invasion of privacy.
Given the issues in the past, this is just a big fuck you to Europe (and clearly deliberate, since it is explicitly cross posted in their European Public Policy Blog).
You can disagree with values and laws in other countries, but you don't just piss all over them like that and expect to still be able to do business there unhindered unless you have a serious attitude problem. Google is rapidly becoming the corporate embodiment of the "Ugly American".
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#16Google is mapping publicly broadcast wifi access points to provide location services to augment GPS (faster locks for example) or when GPS is unavailable due to location or device. It's a very useful service - if you use a smartphone with mapping software, you likely benefit from this on a daily basis without realizing it. Apple does the same thing, although they collect it from user's iphones and ipads: http://www.a…
You are absolutely right, an opt-in system would destroy the whole location-by-wifi-ssid service for everyone. ...but that doesn't create leverage or a good reason for having such a poor and inelegant opt-out. This is an "ends justifies the means" argument, which is in itself Machiavellian. From a different perspective, there are other ways Google could handle an opt-out list - such as letting people add their SSID/M…
For the average access point user, changing the SSID is probably the least difficult option. It also has the useful feature that it actually indicates the owner is the one taking the opt-out action, rather than someone else who can wardrive and opt-out access points for a region.
The HN crowd might skew a little different distribution in their technical ability to do things like identify a mac adddress.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#17Google is mapping publicly broadcast wifi access points to provide location services to augment GPS (faster locks for example) or when GPS is unavailable due to location or device. It's a very useful service - if you use a smartphone with mapping software, you likely benefit from this on a daily basis without realizing it. Apple does the same thing, although they collect it from user's iphones and ipads: http://www.a…
You are absolutely right, an opt-in system would destroy the whole location-by-wifi-ssid service for everyone. ...but that doesn't create leverage or a good reason for having such a poor and inelegant opt-out. This is an "ends justifies the means" argument, which is in itself Machiavellian. From a different perspective, there are other ways Google could handle an opt-out list - such as letting people add their SSID/M…
There are two problems with the MAC approach:
1) The amount of Mac addresses for each vendor is very limited. Blacklisting a few Mac addresses would therefore blacklist lots of routers. Combining this with the SSID doesn't really help that much, as many users will stick to the default SSID. (And if you require that users change their SSID to a non-default one you can as well require that they just add a given suffix).
2) In the EU there have not only been complaints about Google offering the data, but also about Google processing the data. So I guess they want to make sure that their streetview cars that log this data don't log opt-opt routers at all. It's simple to do if the SSID has such a suffix. It'd be much harder if the software system in the card would need to query a central opt-out database before processing a router's data.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#18It'll probably make apps better if they know where every SSID is. I don't see this as a bad thing, although it is a minor privacy intrusion.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#19Oh god, here we go again. Why doesn't Google (or a large portion of HN for that matter) ever learn? Privacy has a different meaning outside the US, and in many places, especially Europe, is strongly protected. Just because the information is public doesn't mean you have the right to collect it and use it any way you see fit, and it certainly doesn't mean it isn't in invasion of privacy. Given the issues in the past,…
Speaking as a European (albeit living in the US) this doesn't offend me at all. If you're broadcasting an AP, then it's like walking past your house and noticing what color it's painted. Don't want to broadcast, then plug in a wire. It's not like they're monitoring your traffic.
When I was growing up, every household with a telephone got a book that had everyone's name and home address in it. That too was an opt-out system and that approach worked pretty well.
Re: Google is mapping your wi-fi access point and the opt-out options stinks
#20The person who wrote the article this link goes to doesn't seem to understand what Google's Wifi AP database is for. He seems to think it's going to be some searchable database instead of just used for device positioning. It would have been better to just post the link to the Google blog post instead of this misinformed blog.
To be useful for device positioning, doesnt it by definition, have to be searchable?