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Are these founders trying to screw me?

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Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#51

Post by maxklein »

readyrnot wrote: post #49
DabAsteroid wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have threatened this several times Maybe this points to the root of the communication problem between you and them. By threatening, instead of doing what an assertive person might do (which might be to simply walk away with the code that you own and wait for them to contact you with a sweet offer in writing), you might be sending them a message that is poisoning the negotiations. It is possible to be passively abus…

In good faith I continued to work. This was after I was lied to and screamed at. This was in hopes that they would turn around and be more agreeable. Clearly not the right thing to do. It's not greed, it's about getting what I was promised. You're right though about one thing ... paranoia breeds more paranoia. I've been nothing but forthcoming and honest.

Why are you just presenting one side of the story? You are making yourself to seem like an angel and they like devils. At least balance your story a bit, it's getting a bit suspicious now.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#53

Post by readyrnot »

prime0196 wrote: post #42

I would find out who is really pulling the strings. Could the founder's lawyers or maybe the investor be asking that all parties involved sign an NDA? Are the founders merely advising themselves? You may want to think about having a meeting with everyone(founders, lawyers, investors) and find out where the contingencies are. The people in control may not even know your situation.

This is exactly what I would like, a meeting with everyone involved so that we can see what is true and what's not.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#54

Post by readyrnot »

Harkins wrote: post #50

When someone is screwing you, they never say "ha, ha" until the very end when they think they've gotten all they can. Before that, this is some temporary instability, this is an important time, don't you trust me, it's coming, we're waiting on the lawyers, that language is boilerplate, this is how the business works, you don't understand the nuances, etc. Stop listening to what they say, look at what they do. Either…

Yes it is the founder and his buddy of many years. For many months now I've had that feeling that things are "not right". I've recently found out that he's one of those guys that will say anything to get the outcome he desires.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#55

Post by ConradHex »

readyrnot wrote: post #30
pg wrote: post #23

Sounds dubious. But if the founder is the sort of person you'd never have worked for if you'd known what he was like, why do you care? It sounds like you ought to work somewhere else anyway.

The problem is if the idea is good and they take my code and sell it and make money then I've lost out. At this point I want what was promised to me.

How about just getting them to buy you out for cash?

I can't help but think if they are this flaky, the chance of success is minimal.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#56

Post by mseebach »

_ecga wrote: post #39
readyrnot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have filed a provisional patent and this is an interesting point. Again however I've not been paid ever for anything. Never at any point have I declared that I would relinquish ownership of the code. The recent one sided contract they gave me had these terms in there. I obviously didn't sign that.

I think you might be over-reacting to these provisions. It's entirely normal that you sign over ownership of the code to the company in exchange for your equity. That's in every form stock agreement. Are you using an experienced startup lawyer? It sounds like maybe you are not. You don't need a big fancy law firm, but you do need a lawyer who is very familiar with startups and standard terms. You should confirm that…

> It's entirely normal that you sign over ownership of the code to the company in exchange for your equity. That's in every form stock agreement.

Yeah, but he's being asked to sign over ownership, in order to begin the process of receiving equity. If he signs that, they have every opportunity to screw him, which they do not have now.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#57

Post by menloparkbum »

readyrnot wrote: post #29
noonespecial wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get paid for the work you did? If no, then probably you still own the code. This is really good advice here. So many people miss this one. I wish it had more upmods. When people try to screw you like this they usually rely on keeping everything as vague as possible, hoping to get as much out of you as they can and then stiff you in the end. This vagueness cuts both ways. If there was no written agreement and…

No I've not been paid for anything. My lawyer at one point mentioned that if I was they could use that to say "oh we've paid him, that's what we agreed to as compensation". So I believe you're correct in this aspect. I"ll ask my lawyer again.

how do you survive if you haven't been paid for a year?

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#58

Post by dkokelley »

_ecga wrote: post #37
dkokelley wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure what you say is correct, which means that the verbal agreement for equity also holds. It follows that if no equity is given, the contract is breached and the code can be taken elsewhere.

Not so clear cut. You would need to be very careful if you tried to pull this. Look at the facts he explained. The investors are just coming in now, and the founders are saying that the stock agreement depends on the investors' lawyers. That's actually pretty reasonable in a situation where you have a bunch of inexperienced founders getting money from experienced investors. The investors might force the founders to a…

If he was to take the code elsewhere, that act could actually be considered the breach.

And if he breached, what would he have to give back to the founders that was given to him for the code?

Also, if the code was given in return for equity (or the promise of equity), then he is an owner and should have a say in the decision to accept the investment and negotiate the terms.

I agree that the final stock agreement depends on the investor's lawyers (provided everything works out), but how the equity is divided before that is between the founder and the coder.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#59

Post by _ecga »

dkokelley wrote: post #58
_ecga wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so clear cut. You would need to be very careful if you tried to pull this. Look at the facts he explained. The investors are just coming in now, and the founders are saying that the stock agreement depends on the investors' lawyers. That's actually pretty reasonable in a situation where you have a bunch of inexperienced founders getting money from experienced investors. The investors might force the founders to a…

If he was to take the code elsewhere, that act could actually be considered the breach. And if he breached, what would he have to give back to the founders that was given to him for the code? Also, if the code was given in return for equity (or the promise of equity), then he is an owner and should have a say in the decision to accept the investment and negotiate the terms. I agree that the final stock agreement depe…

If a court determined that he breached, there could be damages for losses to the company based on his breach, i.e. it could go beyond him just giving back what they gave him. This is really the kind of thing where you need a lawyer's guidance based on very specific facts.

Re: Are these founders trying to screw me?

#60

Post by alecco »

ConradHex wrote: post #55
readyrnot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if the idea is good and they take my code and sell it and make money then I've lost out. At this point I want what was promised to me.

How about just getting them to buy you out for cash? I can't help but think if they are this flaky, the chance of success is minimal.

Ask your lawyer and consider the Facebook and Microsoft DOS tricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Facebook#Connectu....

Don't sell out cheap unless a lawyer with vast experience on this tells you there is no other way.

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