Why does anything exist? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why does anything exist?

#81

Post by andyjohnson0 » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:30 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #59

If you like the question of "Why does anything exist?" then an obvious next question is: "What's stopping things from not existing?" In philosophy, there is a distinction between things that must be (they're called necessary) and things that may or may not be (they're called contingent). For instance, if we use the standard definition of a square, then every square you will ever encounter will necessarily have four s…

Thank you for taking the time to write that and explain the concepts so clearly.

How do you know that concepts/categories like "necessary" and "contingent" apply to the universe? Specifically, if the universe is everythibg that there ever is or ever will be, how can it be contingent upon something external to itself?

Could it not be the case that there concepts come from a causality-based view of reality that may be far from universally applicable?

Re: Why does anything exist?

#82

Post by caloriesdont » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:31 PM UTC

hydrolox wrote: post #73

jawns wrote: post #59

If you like the question of "Why does anything exist?" then an obvious next question is: "What's stopping things from not existing?" In philosophy, there is a distinction between things that must be (they're called necessary) and things that may or may not be (they're called contingent). For instance, if we use the standard definition of a square, then every square you will ever encounter will necessarily have four s…

but isn't the problem that you could get stuck in an infinite contingency loop? i.e if you pick God, what if God is contingent and so on. Sure you can say something is required but it's rather arbitrary.

>Sure you can say something is required but it's rather arbitrary.

It's only arbitrary if there aren't good reasons.

Dozens of reasons have been given in philosophy, it's up to you to decide if any of them work.

One of the big differences would be to point out that the universe is completely composite, whereas a foundation could be purely simple.

Josh Rasmussen is a great communicator about this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX79xXgi44o&ab_channel=TheUn...

Re: Why does anything exist?

#83

Post by CharlesW » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

Pixeleen wrote: post #74

I happen to believe it is because God willed the universe into existence. There are more esoteric explanations, something about him being lonely, but we're not supposed to even start worrying about them until the age of 40.

> I happen to believe it is because God willed the universe into existence.

Ah yes, Phanes.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#84

Post by vehemenz » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

tobrien6 wrote: post #48

vehemenz wrote: post #23

As a philosopher, I recommend that anyone read up on ontological anti-realism before they get too invested in the answer to questions like these. Carnap and Quine (to say nothing of Kant) wrote extensively about the problems that arise when treating metaphysical "existence" as a predicate. There are strong reasons to adopt ontological anti-realism. I'm amused when folks muse extensively in the ontological mode withou…

I see how your response makes sense in terms of questions like "why does an electron exist", but what about the general notion of existence? It seems self-evident that there is something, even just experience. I interpreted the question as more "why something rather than nothing" which seems coherent.

I don't really follow. I interpret "there is" and "something" as quantifications, not predicates. What would be the predicate here?

The general notion of existence, at least in natural language, seems to be a shorthand for quantification or negation. I'm not sure what it would mean for "existence" to exist, short of adopting Platonism or some bizarre metaphysical system.

The "something rather than nothing" question, if stated coherently, would likely be beyond the scope of human knowledge. Although ultimately I don't think it can be stated in a way that makes sense.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#85

Post by caloriesdont » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:32 PM UTC

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #81

jawns wrote: post #59

If you like the question of "Why does anything exist?" then an obvious next question is: "What's stopping things from not existing?" In philosophy, there is a distinction between things that must be (they're called necessary) and things that may or may not be (they're called contingent). For instance, if we use the standard definition of a square, then every square you will ever encounter will necessarily have four s…

Thank you for taking the time to write that and explain the concepts so clearly. How do you know that concepts/categories like "necessary" and "contingent" apply to the universe? Specifically, if the universe is everythibg that there ever is or ever will be, how can it be contingent upon something external to itself? Could it not be the case that there concepts come from a causality-based view of reality that may be…

> Specifically, if the universe is everything that there ever is or ever will be, how can it be contingent upon something external to itself?

It would be contingent upon a necessary foundation within the universe.

So there is one specific part in the universe that is necessary, and everything else around that is contingent.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#86

Post by triyambakam » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:37 PM UTC

> The religious person is left with a mystery which is no less than the mystery with which science leaves us

As a Hindu I find this baffling. For the Hindu there is a consistency across science and religion, and sometimes the line between the two isn't clear. They work together harmoniously to form my worldview.

Based on the cursory information I have about the author's background, I am assuming he was exposed to Western Christianity growing up.

I find that this breeds a very narrow minded form of atheism, one that rejects a very specific idea of what God is.

I have a suspicion that if many of the atheists in the West were exposed to the full metaphysical understanding of the Eternal Dharma they may not be atheists, or at least be a different kind of atheist than simply a Not-Christian.

In Hinduism God is not a man or a woman, but instead the energy that is manifest in every atom of every universe. God is the universal wave function.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#87

Post by cpr » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:38 PM UTC

caloriesdont wrote: post #85

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for taking the time to write that and explain the concepts so clearly. How do you know that concepts/categories like "necessary" and "contingent" apply to the universe? Specifically, if the universe is everythibg that there ever is or ever will be, how can it be contingent upon something external to itself? Could it not be the case that there concepts come from a causality-based view of reality that may be…

> Specifically, if the universe is everything that there ever is or ever will be, how can it be contingent upon something external to itself? It would be contingent upon a necessary foundation within the universe. So there is one specific part in the universe that is necessary, and everything else around that is contingent.

It can't be contingent on something necessary within itself. Within means being part of the contingency.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#88

Post by whoisjuan » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:38 PM UTC

nathan_compton wrote: post #57

whoisjuan wrote: post #46

Our minds can only interpret the universe through a binary model, but that doesn't mean that the universe conforms to our binary interpretation of it. "Why does anything exist?" becomes a silly question if you're capable of abandoning your rational mind for a minute and humbly accepting that perhaps the universe is an absolute system with no dualistic nature.

My problem with this attitude is what even are you talking about? Suppose we "abandon our rational mind" for a moment and sojourn into the irrational. How the heck are we supposed to take anything back from that experience and into the world of discourse? Presumably there is much more bullshit in the endless tracks of irrationality than truth and whatever mechanism by which we choose to carry ideas back clearly can't…

First, assuming that the universe is an absolute system doesn't mean we can't build models to interpret its nature through binary interpretations. In the same way that a map is not the territory, a mental model for the universe isn't the universe.

So saying "abandon our rational mind" is just a rhetorical mechanism to establish that perhaps this is the wrong question, and we should reframe what we understand as absolute or relative.

You're incorrectly interpreting my words as a call for irrationality. I'm just saying that our interpretation of the universe and the debates about its origins are often based on ideas that can't be challenged because they are scientific truisms.

The problem is that anything that doesn't comply with our standard interpretation of the universe will be deemed esoteric and unscientific. Therefore, it neuters debates that could yield a valid interpretation of the universe.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#89

Post by russellbeattie » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:40 PM UTC

I have a better question: Why does everything move, forever? Newton's first law is bewildering when you stop to think about it.

From the smallest subatomic particle on up, matter and energy are always moving, both through the universe, as well as within matter itself. Gluons are constantly bopping back and forth among the quarks that make up nucleons, electrons zip around from atom to atom, photons fly off on infinite voyages. The Voyager space probes will never stop unless something stops it.

Why? Seems like a fundamental question. Imagine if we discovered the Ultimate Frame Of Reference and were able to lock an atom in 3D space, completely removing its momentum? The first discovery might blow a hole in the side of a mountain as a single stopped atom suddenly gets hit by the Earth at whatever insane speed it's moving through the universe. It'd be the ultimate kinetic energy weapon.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#90

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:46 PM UTC

kloch wrote: post #30

On the similar theme of "things we don't have answers to yet": When I was five years old I asked my dad what was beyond the "edge" of the Universe. He said "There is no edge, it goes on infinitely forever. Even if there was an edge, there would have to be something beyond that, even if it was a vacuum right?". I literally cried myself to sleep trying to visualize this.

one of the only question i want an answer from smartest people on earth