Why does anything exist? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why does anything exist?

#51

Post by yes_man » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

trebbble wrote: post #43

yes_man wrote: post #36

Having listened to a dozen YT videos and podcasts on the subject, I am kind of an expert (just kidding). But I can relay one view a few brilliant people invested into the subject have about the issue: that reality is a set of all possible states. Of what states? Well literally anything. Imagine a wave that can at any point oscillate up or down. If it does both and splits, it eventually will create all possible states…

Looks like an appeal to the divine, in that it doesn't explain anything but does push the question up a level. "Why does something exist?" "God did it." "Uh, ok, why does God exist?" "Dunno, just does." "Why does something exist?" "The set of all possible wave states exists and behaves such-and-such way" "OK, but why does that exist and why does it do that?" "Dunno, just does". <- Ditto.

I guess you are right. Maybe it’s more of a way to get in sane terms with the question.

On that note though it definitely feels more logical and harmonious concept than ”God did it”. But I do get your point

Re: Why does anything exist?

#52

Post by forty » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

Is there a clear distinction in English between "why" and "what for" ? In french it's literally the same words ("pourquoi" vs "pour quoi")

My 5yo daughter asked me "why do we exist". I answered the why as in some events that happened that led to our existence, but finding a reason is a bit tougher :)

Re: Why does anything exist?

#53

Post by efitz » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

Does "cause" exist?

I didn't spend the hours reading the entire article, but after 10-15min I realized that the author has adopted a "caused" vs. "uncaused" taxonomy, without really defining what "caused" means.

Does causality exist or is it simply an observational phenomenon that is a side effect of our limited perception of space-time? Kind of like "centrifugal force" is an observational phenomenon.

Maybe there is no such thing as causality, and we can never know "why stuff exists" because we are incapable of perceiving the answer.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#54

Post by vehemenz » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

fluoridation wrote: post #41

vehemenz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws of physics are true; why do they need to "exist"?

Are the states of the laws of physics being true and them "existing", distinct?

Yes. One is a statement that describes the world, the other is an ontological claim about what "exists" (whatever that means).

What is added by saying the laws of physics "exist"? Note that we already know they are true.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#55

Post by breuleux » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:57 PM UTC

I think it's kind of silly to expect that a satisfactory answer to that question exists. Given that there is an infinite number of possible ways the universe could have been ("nothing" being just one of these possibilities), pretty much all of these possibilities are vanishingly improbable, including whichever one them eventually obtains. So I think that "it is what it is", or "it is arbitrary" is a perfectly reasonable answer to why our universe exists. To put it a different way, I don't see why existence couldn't be necessarily arbitrary, or what is repugnant about that notion.

I only skimmed the article, but from what I can see they advocate the mathematical universe theory. To me, that's just a metaphysical choice that does not really add any useful information: it is arbitrarily solving the issue by making every consistent universe exist with probability 1, which strikes me as little more than a parlor trick. If there are 100 balls in a box, I draw one, and it has the number 23 on it, I don't think "there are 100 parallel universes, one where I draw ball one, one where I draw ball two, and so on" is a more compelling explanation than "there is one universe and I happened to draw ball 23". I would still want to know why I am in universe 23. Maybe (probably) there is no answer, except that it is what it is.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#56

Post by function_seven » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

trebbble wrote: post #43

yes_man wrote: post #36

Having listened to a dozen YT videos and podcasts on the subject, I am kind of an expert (just kidding). But I can relay one view a few brilliant people invested into the subject have about the issue: that reality is a set of all possible states. Of what states? Well literally anything. Imagine a wave that can at any point oscillate up or down. If it does both and splits, it eventually will create all possible states…

Looks like an appeal to the divine, in that it doesn't explain anything but does push the question up a level. "Why does something exist?" "God did it." "Uh, ok, why does God exist?" "Dunno, just does." "Why does something exist?" "The set of all possible wave states exists and behaves such-and-such way" "OK, but why does that exist and why does it do that?" "Dunno, just does". <- Ditto.

There is something about this that at least partially satisfies the question, in that it simplifies as you go one level up.

With the "God did it" explanation, something vastly more complex and inscrutable is required (i.e. God) to make the explanation work. With this explanation, there is but a simple wave that splits on its possible oscillations. Our existence is on one of these.

No explanation will ever find the "bottom turtle." There will always be space for another "why?" question. The interesting part is probably more to do with the "asker" this question rather than the answer to it. That we have this capacity to think abstractly about this is, to me, more mind-blowing than the nature of existence itself.

Re: Why does anything exist?

#57

Post by nathan_compton » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #46

Our minds can only interpret the universe through a binary model, but that doesn't mean that the universe conforms to our binary interpretation of it. "Why does anything exist?" becomes a silly question if you're capable of abandoning your rational mind for a minute and humbly accepting that perhaps the universe is an absolute system with no dualistic nature.

My problem with this attitude is what even are you talking about? Suppose we "abandon our rational mind" for a moment and sojourn into the irrational. How the heck are we supposed to take anything back from that experience and into the world of discourse? Presumably there is much more bullshit in the endless tracks of irrationality than truth and whatever mechanism by which we choose to carry ideas back clearly can't distinguish the two as it has abandoned anything like epistemology. So what is the point of even talking about it?

Re: Why does anything exist?

#58

Post by tshaddox » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:58 PM UTC

trebbble wrote: post #43

yes_man wrote: post #36

Having listened to a dozen YT videos and podcasts on the subject, I am kind of an expert (just kidding). But I can relay one view a few brilliant people invested into the subject have about the issue: that reality is a set of all possible states. Of what states? Well literally anything. Imagine a wave that can at any point oscillate up or down. If it does both and splits, it eventually will create all possible states…

Looks like an appeal to the divine, in that it doesn't explain anything but does push the question up a level. "Why does something exist?" "God did it." "Uh, ok, why does God exist?" "Dunno, just does." "Why does something exist?" "The set of all possible wave states exists and behaves such-and-such way" "OK, but why does that exist and why does it do that?" "Dunno, just does". <- Ditto.

The only thing problematic about “appeals to the divine” or other explanations that “push the question up a level” is if part of the explanation is the prohibition of “where did that thing come from?” or “why is it this way and not some other way?”

But pushing things up a level is actually the only option we have for good explanations. For any explanation about anything whatsoever, you should always be able to ask “why is it this way rather than some other way?” It’s not some paradox or contradiction that there will never be an end to this series of explanations and questions, and any claim that there is an end is the bad kind of “appeal to the divine”!!

Re: Why does anything exist?

#59

Post by jawns » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:59 PM UTC

If you like the question of "Why does anything exist?" then an obvious next question is: "What's stopping things from not existing?"

In philosophy, there is a distinction between things that must be (they're called necessary) and things that may or may not be (they're called contingent). For instance, if we use the standard definition of a square, then every square you will ever encounter will necessarily have four sides. In contrast, not every square you encounter will be blue or tiny. Those are contingent properties of a square. A square may be blue, or it may not be. A square may be tiny, or it may not be.

Now, would you say that our universe's existence is necessary or contingent? If its existence is necessary, it would mean that there is no possible way for our universe not to exist. If its existence is contingent, then our universe either could exist, or it could not.

I happen to think it's contingent. But if our universe is contingent, then it must be contingent upon something that is necessary. Regardless of whether you view that necessary thing as God or something else, if you agree that the universe is contingent, then the contingency doesn't stop at its creation; its continued existence is also contingent.

So, beyond needing a "first cause" to explain its existence (as with a picture on a painted canvas), our universe requires a "sustaining cause" (as with a picture on a TV set).

Re: Why does anything exist?

#60

Post by Victerius » Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 7:00 PM UTC

captainclam wrote: post #27

Victerius wrote: post #2

Survivor bias. If nothing existed [1], we wouldn't be here to ask the question. It's like asking what is P(A|A). The question "Why do I not exist" has never and will never be (seriously) asked. [1] To be clear, if only nothing existed, and there existed nothing other than nothingness. [2] [2] I sense epistemologists warming their guns here, asking if the "existence" of "nothing" counts as the existence of "something"…

Doesn't this just completely dodge/dismiss the original question? If I asked how biology worked, you wouldn't say "Survivorship bias: if biology didn't work, you wouldn't be here to ask the question."

I see what you mean. But with biology, every organism has a different biology. I can take a plant or an animal and study its biology as an external and impartial observer.

With respect to the question of the existence of everything, I can't take the Universe or a Universe and study its properties as an external and impartial observer.

If I was the only organism in the Universe, I could still try to study my body and reach limited conclusions, like we do with physics, but I couldn't go further without dissecting myself or injecting myself with potentially hazardous substances, which would kill me. And I certainly would never be able to answer the question of where I came from if I didn't know about the concept of gender, sex, and reproduction, which I couldn't know about if I was the only organism to have ever existed from my point of view.

So I am dismissing the original question.