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GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

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Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#501

Post by nuclearnice1 »

PeterisP wrote: post #123
nuclearnice1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your analysis. Ex post facto criminal laws are barred by the constitution for good reason. Retroactive punishment leaves people guessing what actions might or might not be punished.

Well, Github blocking an account is not considered "punishment" according to criminal law or constitution, only standard contract law would apply and I believe Github has the right to terminate such contracts if they wish. This consideration would apply if and only if the government would actually pursue criminal charges against someone who contributed to TornadoCash - which they possibly would if someone would do st…

Well, you misunderstood me.

I meant to offer the constitutional reasoning as a source for why retroactive punishment is problematic. Not as the binding legal principle.

I agree GitHub CAN do this.

My post offered the opinion GitHub should NOT do this.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#502

Post by tekknik »

dogman144 wrote: post #312

The commenters saying be reasonable, they were sanctioned, GitHub had to do this, should look into the last time code was made illegal or similar turmoil and what the developer community did in response…It was not accepting sanctions or govt failures to understand code as “well that’s that.” - Phil Zimmerman (PGP) was under criminal investigation for arms exports by releasing the code for consumer encryption. The cas…

> on code the govt doesn’t really understand

But they do understand it, quite well. It launders money, there is no legal use for a money laundering machine.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#503

Post by tragictrash »

capableweb wrote: post #340
revscat wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I don’t care what happens to crypto bros. They put profit before environment. Fuck em.

This type of opinion is so sad to see, especially here on HN that tends to be relatively level-headed. I don't agree with a lot of things in the world, but the only thing I wish for them is for things to get better, not worse.

If you look at his submissions and comment history, I don't worry so much, it's all hyper partisan politically influenced hot takes.

The funny part is he's contributing to the problem, as in not realizing it's the working class vs the rich, not the left vs the right.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#504

Post by tiahura »

ETH_start wrote: post #488
tiahura wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He made the choice. No one else. Or, if you blame the prosecutor for driving him, do you also blame his friends and family for not being supportive enough?

The primary responsibility falls on the prosecutor. The prison sentence they sought for Swartz was not by any stretch justified. This injustice seriously endangered not just Swartz's mental health, but his prospects for a fulfilling life, even had he lived.

A prosecutor doesn’t seek a sentence until after the defendant is found guilty.

Moreover, judges don’t care about prosecutors or what they think. And, sentences are largely determined by sentencing guidelines.

Rich white kids with no prior convictions don’t go to prison for stealing library books.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#505

Post by guipsp »

JackFr wrote: post #310
blagie wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I disagree. Github should not be able to block anyone they want. We went through this about a century ago with railways, antitrust, and Standard Oil. I won't step through the details, but can provide more background if anyone cares. We landed with the concept of a "common carrier." Railways, as well as telecommunications companies, ISPs, public airlines, bus lines, taxicab companies, phone companies, cruise ships…

> Once you provide a sufficiently central service, you should not be allowed to discriminate. - git by design completely decentralized. - crypto by design and inherent in its philosophy decentralized "GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE GITHUB GIVE ME AN ACCOUNT!"

No one said that

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#506

Post by sneed-oil »

tekknik wrote: post #502
dogman144 wrote: post #312

The commenters saying be reasonable, they were sanctioned, GitHub had to do this, should look into the last time code was made illegal or similar turmoil and what the developer community did in response…It was not accepting sanctions or govt failures to understand code as “well that’s that.” - Phil Zimmerman (PGP) was under criminal investigation for arms exports by releasing the code for consumer encryption. The cas…

> on code the govt doesn’t really understand But they do understand it, quite well. It launders money, there is no legal use for a money laundering machine.

Its use is offering a level of privacy that is at least as good as the one a credit card offers. On the Ethereum blockchain anybody you transact with can see your transaction history.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#507

Post by thalassophobia »

itsoktocry wrote: post #253
nuclearnice1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your analysis. Ex post facto criminal laws are barred by the constitution for good reason. Retroactive punishment leaves people guessing what actions might or might not be punished.

> Ex post facto criminal laws are barred by the constitution for good reason. I think your analysis is flawed. They didn't come up with some new law and apply it to these people ex post facto. These accounts were contributing to the money laundering (per accusations, albeit indirectly). Another way to look at it: if these people were contributing knowingly to a project that was laundering money, should they be punish…

This is a anonymous token. It can be used for a plethora of things, including earning passive income. If we apply this line of thinking, everyone who has ever contributed to Monero and Tor should be punished because both are widely used for criminal activity.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#508

Post by sneed-oil »

Nursie wrote: post #374
dogman144 wrote: post #312

The commenters saying be reasonable, they were sanctioned, GitHub had to do this, should look into the last time code was made illegal or similar turmoil and what the developer community did in response…It was not accepting sanctions or govt failures to understand code as “well that’s that.” - Phil Zimmerman (PGP) was under criminal investigation for arms exports by releasing the code for consumer encryption. The cas…

I don't find "facilitating mass money laundering" to be as compelling as the other cases, frankly. This doesn't mean that any/all measures taken against them are automatically justified, but it's large-scale crime, and it's not in the realm of "information wants to be free", it's actual money laundering, for actual criminal cartels and actual rogue states.

It's not comparable to money laundering. When you launder money by registering sales that did not happen you'll get taxed and you can then spend that money wherever you'd like. If you try to use funds coming from Tornado Cash most people won't accept them because they'll assume they were stolen or they come from some type of illicit activity.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#509

Post by tekknik »

sneed-oil wrote: post #506
tekknik wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> on code the govt doesn’t really understand But they do understand it, quite well. It launders money, there is no legal use for a money laundering machine.

Its use is offering a level of privacy that is at least as good as the one a credit card offers. On the Ethereum blockchain anybody you transact with can see your transaction history.

because your average citizen needs anonymity when buying everyday items? So much so that we need to allow money laundering?

No, this still isn’t a valid use.

Re: GitHub deleted accounts of people who contributed to Tornado Cash repos

#510

Post by mikhael28 »

anonporridge wrote: post #396
dogman144 wrote: post #312

The commenters saying be reasonable, they were sanctioned, GitHub had to do this, should look into the last time code was made illegal or similar turmoil and what the developer community did in response…It was not accepting sanctions or govt failures to understand code as “well that’s that.” - Phil Zimmerman (PGP) was under criminal investigation for arms exports by releasing the code for consumer encryption. The cas…

Has it ever been the case that the majority of the developer community stand behind this kind of resistance to government power? It seems like it's always been a tiny minority of idealists who put their own lives on the line to do what they believe is right in the face of the beast bearing down on them. The majority has always been (and probably will always be) weak minded corporate yes men. What is distasteful is th…

So, money laundering, fraud and enabling cyber criminal activity is 'idealism'?

Also: GitHub is a private company. It's their real estate, they can do what they want with it. If they wanted to keep it up, they could have.

They didn't want to.

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