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Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

arstechnica.com

241–250 of 439 posts

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#241
I greatly respect the initiative and scrappy-ness of someone doing this. And the legacy providers are clearly sitting on their monopoly position in a way that makes their pathetic alternative so starkly unattractive.

But isn't it also true that once his network grows above a certain customer base (and gets into the maintenance phase), he will start to see all the effects that eat into being able to do this cheaply?

Namely:

-- customers who don't behave as well or kindly as before

-- customers who need 24 hour customer service

-- maintenance that can't be done himself, and he has to employ people

-- customers and vendors who sue you for breach of contract, or other simply nuisance lawsuits

-- upgrading the network to the next technology requirement, or when he's unable to get 2nd-hand parts so cheaply, etc.

-- or a natural disaster that unexpectedly forces replacement of (and charging for) equipment that wasn't anticipated in the original subscriber price

Maybe none of this rises to the level of making it fundamentally different or unsustainable? But it seems to me the honeymoon phase doesn't last long, and it's got to hit some unavoidable realities soon. At least, if you think you can replicate this, it requires finding people and neighbors who are willing to do actual work and investment/concern to make something like this possible, and not simply pay a vendor a premium to phone it in. It must be treated like a neighbor-to-neighbor community project, not a faceless commercial transaction with its attendant obligations.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The costs for internet in the US still surprises me, how on earth can it be so expensive?! I understand some countries, but in the US, it seems high costs are because "because we can", not because it has to be like that. In comparison, you get 1 Gbps symmetric fiber connection in most countries in Europe for under ~$30/month. In some, you even get it for under $10/month (like Romania, which has surprisingly awesome i…

Comcast has 189,000 employees who make US salaries. It costs a lot less to dig a trench in Romania than in Seattle. You can look at the profit margins. 11.3% for Comcast as of June 2022. That tells me they aren't simply collecting the difference between US and Romanian internet prices in profit. Of course, far be it from me to defend Comcast, but this is basically just the concept of purchasing power parity (PPP)

Are those margins only on their broadband business? Comcast has other ventures as well.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#243
post #237

He's getting $2.6 million to set up access to 417 homes. That works out to $6,235 per home. At $55 per month, it would take 113 months, or over 9 years just to get $2.6 million in revenue. Horrible economics! What a crazy business to be in. No wonder grants like this are necessary.

So taxpayer dollars are necessary to make this business viable, and the product of that business is something that, realistically, everyone absolutely needs access to - certainly seems like this should not be a private business at all but a public utility. Have we ever asked this kind of question for interstate highways?

given the state of the roads and streets in most places in the usa I have very little confidence that public internet will keep up with maintenance, upgrading the equipment to the lastest speeds and standards every 5 yrs.

Commercial ISPs have issues and they should not be given local monopolies but even shitty Comcast is better today than it was yesterday. The same is not true of most of the roads in my state.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recognized his name from providing hosting for the outages.org list[0] – if you haven't subscribed, and you do anything operations at all, go hit the button now. [0]: https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/outages

Not come across this list before. I'm being a bit lazy here but do you happen to know if there is a way to consume this programatically? I'm thinking RSS or perhaps an API? Edit: For the benefit of others who might be interested, I've just subscribed using Feedbin's [0] email-to-RSS feature so updates will appear in my RSS reader! [0] https://feedbin.com

This is a mailing list. Subscribe and point it to something that can ingest messages, similar to how you would pipe support@ to a helpdesk and auto-create tickets.

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#245
post #19

A couple of fun facts about this guy: His little ISP is AS267, which is a SHOCKINGLY low number. That's like.. the ISP equiv of a 4 digit slashdot id, or owning something like sodapop.com. He's also one of the authors of RFC 5575, which is a pretty big deal in the DDoS world.

I don't know (or care) about how he got that ASN but ARIN does occasionally recycle returned 3 or 4 digit ASN's, including very recently: 20220607|arin|US|asn|888|1|assigned|66e25d155d3f3d57ff208733b59f8cc8 20220607|arin|US|asn|889|1|assigned|5b048aafff56a02f895e68ac5188853b 20220607|arin|US|asn|890|1|assigned|708d3f11915973323c76a5f95fa2d775 20220607|arin|US|asn|891|1|assigned|ab9bfca0becd32b7fe44c7ea0ba1aac3 202206…

In this case, this wasn't recycled - his is actually decades old

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#246

A couple of fun facts about this guy: His little ISP is AS267, which is a SHOCKINGLY low number. That's like.. the ISP equiv of a 4 digit slashdot id, or owning something like sodapop.com. He's also one of the authors of RFC 5575, which is a pretty big deal in the DDoS world.

My university’s is number 2; is there any significance to that?

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The neighborhood developer paid for that. The roads connecting, donated many many years ago by the landowners at that time

Ah! - so the next neighborhood over has all-private roads, and the homeowners association there ( not the government) pays for all snow plowing, crack & pothole patching, repaving, storm sewer work, etc. that might be needed?

Ah yes, the HOA. A group of elected people that can compel you to do things with your property, require you to pay a share every year or they take your home, and have the ability to fine you if you don't comply with the majority opinion. Very much not a government in any way!

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#248

I greatly respect the initiative and scrappy-ness of someone doing this. And the legacy providers are clearly sitting on their monopoly position in a way that makes their pathetic alternative so starkly unattractive. But isn't it also true that once his network grows above a certain customer base (and gets into the maintenance phase), he will start to see all the effects that eat into being able to do this cheaply? N…

There are lots of ISPs that don’t suck

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The costs for internet in the US still surprises me, how on earth can it be so expensive?! I understand some countries, but in the US, it seems high costs are because "because we can", not because it has to be like that. In comparison, you get 1 Gbps symmetric fiber connection in most countries in Europe for under ~$30/month. In some, you even get it for under $10/month (like Romania, which has surprisingly awesome i…

Comcast has 189,000 employees who make US salaries. It costs a lot less to dig a trench in Romania than in Seattle. You can look at the profit margins. 11.3% for Comcast as of June 2022. That tells me they aren't simply collecting the difference between US and Romanian internet prices in profit. Of course, far be it from me to defend Comcast, but this is basically just the concept of purchasing power parity (PPP)

Costs of deployment and profit margins have nothing to do with it. The US public has subsidized the cost of broadband internet deployment since the very birth of the internet, and continues to do so like clockwork every few years. Private ISPs continue to caress the books to make it seem like they're barely operating at a profit and still need more, without ever having delivered on the last promise. Taxpayers have paid for fiber to every home a few times over at this point.

http://irregulators.org/bookofbrokenpromises/

Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes

#250

He's getting $2.6 million to set up access to 417 homes. That works out to $6,235 per home. At $55 per month, it would take 113 months, or over 9 years just to get $2.6 million in revenue. Horrible economics! What a crazy business to be in. No wonder grants like this are necessary.

It’s a utility. Utilities have very stable revenues and very long payback periods. Nine years is pretty short in this context
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