Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a small ISP you don't peer - you just buy transit from a bigger ISP. So the basic steps are: 1. Buy a 1G/1G or 10G/10G whatever link to a building you own. 2. Resell that link in parts to customers. Or you can get yourself into a POP (point of presence) somewhere that multiple providers are also in, and get transit that way. Depends on where you are and what you can get access to.
Yes, it can be pretty simple. Back in the day when DSL and comcast were the options and all of the connections were things like UP TO 5 or even 20 Mbps, but speeds were rarely that - I paid for a dedicated 2Mbs up and down ($180/month) with no restrictions on use and started sharing/reselling it to others in my apartment building, not with wireless, but with cat5 out the window, up the gutter, back inside, etc. Acros…
Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
171–180 of 439 posts
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#172A couple of fun facts about this guy: His little ISP is AS267, which is a SHOCKINGLY low number. That's like.. the ISP equiv of a 4 digit slashdot id, or owning something like sodapop.com. He's also one of the authors of RFC 5575, which is a pretty big deal in the DDoS world.
What is an ASN and what advantage is there to have a low number?
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of taxes is to provide collective goods, such as infrastructure, defense, education. One of the first thing the US's founders did was create the postal service, which was to provide mail service to everyone, regardless of location; it literally costs the same to mail a letter across the street as to send it to some house in Whoknowswhere, Alaska. This provides a minimum communications infrastructure. One of…
I'm saying to allocate budget to maximize as much as possible the public/global interest. Yes it's nicer to have optic fiber, but this is somewhat luxury if Starlink exists, and if the gov funds it already. I'm sure some other people in the US need more these 30'000 USD than optic fiber to watch Netflix with a little less buffering. Budget could be used somewhere else (to build roads, or to support medicine/health, e…
If multiple and more reliable than Starlink existed, maybe.
The point of universal access is just that - UNIVERSAL access.
We are already failing this massively with laws granting territorial monopolies to companies like Comcast AT&T, Verizon, etc., enabling them to give the worst possible service at globally awful prices. Granting another effective monopoly to Starlink is not the solution, UNLESS we are going to regulate all of this like a utility - actual regulated standards of service, by companies with a large in-state business nexus, cost-plus rates approved by regulatory body, etc.
Using Starlink seems fine, but Starlink has effectively zero skin in the game, no in-state nexux. If it is convenient for them to shut off or downgrade service to these houses for some reason, there is essentially zero recourse for these customers or the state to exercise any leverage to cause Starlink to resume service.
This is actually an excellent solution, with a local vendor with skin in the game, providing solid fiber infrastructure.
You really seem to entirely miss the point of UNIVERSAL SERVICE. Yes, the local post office makes a wild profit on delivering a $0.60 1-ounce first-class envelope to a PO box in the same post office, and loses an insane amount delivering the same letter to/from Wherethafakawe, Alaska by bush planes. I'm sure they could be more efficient scanning the letter and sending an email to/from Alaska, but that won't get grandma's fabric sample to her grandkid, or my high-performance sample to my customer. The point is that the same service level everywhere has it's own benefits, and those benefits are to the entire nation, not only to some.
With every general solution, you can point out individual point inefficiencies. What you are failing to notice is that if you optimize for every one of those point inefficiencies, you effectively de-scale the system.
You lose ALL the benefits of a consistent system, as well as losing most of the economies of scale. This is why companies repeatedly go on binges to reduce their supply chain vendor count - sure, some of those suppliers are lower cost at that point, but the overhead of managing many redundant suppliers outweighs the cost.
And you are looking at only one point of the costs, getting bent out of shape, and trowing out a generic "taxes bad" comment. Yes, it looks like a clueless anti-government political comment.
It might even be the case that in some circumstances, a Starlink solution could be best. But you have done none of the analysis to establish that claim, and other people, who are actually 'in the arena' have found a different solution is better. If you want to challenge them, do so with something better than "ugh, taxes and spending bad".
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#174I'm going to put my hand up and say I have absolutely no idea how an ISP works. He runs cables to each house in the area... now where does the other end go?
There are wholesalers that provide "dark fiber", then you buy data services from another "wholesaler". When I looked into it, dark fiber was available through some utilities and through a government funded non-profit. Data to light-up the fiber was available through several different data centers that connected to that dark fiber. You still had to build-out the last mile though, and thats what will get you. You eithe…
Basically everyone out there (including me) is on starlink now. Turns out the subsidies were not only inefficient, but pretty pointless.
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#175...And they say 10x engineers are a myth.
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#176I'm going to put my hand up and say I have absolutely no idea how an ISP works. He runs cables to each house in the area... now where does the other end go?
There is a very good Ars Technica article on how an ISP works. It traces the whole network, from submarine cable through to last mile into a house. It was written in 2016, but I imagine it's still relevant: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/how-t...
Also another great plug for ArsTechnica (even though the main article is them as well, and I'm sure most of this audience is well aware of them) and the excellent technical writing they do.
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are wholesalers that provide "dark fiber", then you buy data services from another "wholesaler". When I looked into it, dark fiber was available through some utilities and through a government funded non-profit. Data to light-up the fiber was available through several different data centers that connected to that dark fiber. You still had to build-out the last mile though, and thats what will get you. You eithe…
Last mile subsidies are super weird. I was looking at a property in montana in the middle of nowhere that had no electricity nearby, but had gigabit fiber. I called the ISP and it was cheaper to get phone+Gb than just Gb due to subsidy rules. Basically everyone out there (including me) is on starlink now. Turns out the subsidies were not only inefficient, but pretty pointless.
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#178A couple of fun facts about this guy: His little ISP is AS267, which is a SHOCKINGLY low number. That's like.. the ISP equiv of a 4 digit slashdot id, or owning something like sodapop.com. He's also one of the authors of RFC 5575, which is a pretty big deal in the DDoS world.
What is an ASN and what advantage is there to have a low number?
The internet is decentralized. Basically, each autonomous system is its own network. This means that they need to connect with one another in order to allow traffic between each other. This is called peering. In order to peer with another network you must have an ASN.
The number doesn't matter.
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the 2nd step https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ If you just Google then it's usually called leased or dedicated internet Just some (US) examples https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet... https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-intern... https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-...
So they're leasing ("buying"?) fiber from the same ISPs they're trying to displace and relying on that payment to provide them with continued internet access? This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP, but something akin to an MVNO where they're at the mercy of the same companies they're competing with. I get the initial sale might seem fine, and the established ISPs might be fine with this as long as the compan…
Re: Man who built ISP instead of paying Comcast $50K expands to hundreds of homes
#180> Comcast once told him it would charge $50,000 to extend its cable network to his house—and that he would have gone with Comcast if they only wanted $10,000. Starts his own company and finds out it costs $30,000 to do it. You need big trucks, drills, excavating equipment, skilled union workers making good wages, safety concerns around water, gas, sewer, electrical and other communication lines, you can't mess up peo…
The correct price in cities is $10 a month. The correct price in rural areas is $500 a month plus. But we have to average them because we insist on taxing cities to subsidise rural lifestyles...