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'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

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Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#51

Why is Netflix part of FAANG? Isn’t all the other ones much larger corporations?

Their top tier compensation packages and stock performance over the past 15 years

That's the story, but I feel the acronym was "unfortunate" without them, so they were added.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#52
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I thought it was a widely-known-secret that at least part of the insane hiring of engineers without clear teams, projects, etc for them to work on initially was to prevent individuals working for current-or-potential competitors. I've heard this claimed but not sourced, and it doesn't really make sense - there are millions of software engineers out there and Google or Meta only employ a tiny fraction of them.

You are mistaken. 100,000 of the best out of a pool of approximately 10 million professional software engineers worldwide is a sizeable portion. Additionally, not all 10 million are even close to being up to BigCorps peculiar standards (perhaps the standard is "someone competent enough that they could potentially build a competing product line"). Goog, Meta, Amazon, Apple, Oracle.. all have huge rosters and it adds u…

Closer to (edit: 13mm professional) developers - https://www.future-processing.com/blog/how-many-developers-a...

Most of those companies have less than 30k SWEs, not 100k - https://twitter.com/gergelyorosz/status/1527004655540133888?... (feel free to google the others)

So for each company they represent at most around (edit: 0.3%) of all professional devs, and presumably the "overhired for anti-competitive reasons" portion is a small fraction of that.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#54
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtless those honest, selfless CEO's were completely duped by evil conspiracies of rotten & incompetent middle managers, who've spent the last decade or two building ever-larger pyramids of bloat to set their golden thrones on top of...

Is this sarcasm? I honestly can't tell

I believe so, based on the phrase "honest selfless CEOs."

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#56

Why is Netflix part of FAANG? Isn’t all the other ones much larger corporations?

When the acronym was coined, Netflix was in the process of disrupting the entire entertainment industry and it looked for all the world like it was going to eat them all. As it happened, the industry (well, Disney and HBO at least) figured things out faster than expected, so much of the speculation on Netflix turned out to be wrong. But they absolutely were a Top of the World tech innovator for a while there.

But it's just an acronym, it's not perfect. The other big error is that, obviously, Microsoft needs to be in that list given their pay scale and hiring process.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#57
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. 100,000 of the best out of a pool of approximately 10 million professional software engineers worldwide is a sizeable portion. Additionally, not all 10 million are even close to being up to BigCorps peculiar standards (perhaps the standard is "someone competent enough that they could potentially build a competing product line"). Goog, Meta, Amazon, Apple, Oracle.. all have huge rosters and it adds u…

Closer to (edit: 13mm professional) developers - https://www.future-processing.com/blog/how-many-developers-a... Most of those companies have less than 30k SWEs, not 100k - https://twitter.com/gergelyorosz/status/1527004655540133888?... (feel free to google the others) So for each company they represent at most around (edit: 0.3%) of all professional devs, and presumably the "overhired for anti-competitive reasons" p…

(edit: parent originally claimed 30 million professional software engineers worldwide, then edited in a revised estimate of 13 million.. which is in the ballpark of my original figure? :)

Just because someone "uses JavaScript" doesn't mean they are a full-time professional. In fact, most are dabblers. The number depends entirely on the definition - are all IT professionals considered software engineers? If so, that's about 24 million.

I am talking about full-time SWEs.

In any case Drew, it sounds like we're mostly in agreement. What a relief! :D

We can't really know what is in the minds of Zuckerfk and Pikaichu, in the end it's all speculation.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#58

I see this as more or less a ruse to justify ridding the companies of all the now remote people who moved away to live in Cheap Town during the pandemic. This is a pretext for the typical Corporate House Cleaning/Reduction In Force scenario. Some people do well working remote (Im one of them in fact) but I suspect and from what I've seen the majority of people simply cant handle the responsibility/self management of…

"Rest and vest" is a phrase that gets bandied about often -- including by people who are trying to do it. I couldn't tell you what fraction of employees, but there are folks hiding in all of the big tech companies that are happy with their comp, aren't trying to advance, and have adopted the "do the minimum to not get fired" approach to their work. If too many of these get together in one org or on one team, the whol…

My experience at Google (which matched other large companies I've been at) was more that the "smartest" (I.E. earliest) members of a team laid down so many road blocks for later members, in the form of tech-debt and undocumented knowledge, that the output difference between coasting and working yourself to death was pretty small. It's an easy environment to get discouraged in.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#59
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I thought it was a widely-known-secret that at least part of the insane hiring of engineers without clear teams, projects, etc for them to work on initially was to prevent individuals working for current-or-potential competitors. I've heard this claimed but not sourced, and it doesn't really make sense - there are millions of software engineers out there and Google or Meta only employ a tiny fraction of them.

You are mistaken. 100,000 of the best out of a pool of approximately 10 million professional software engineers worldwide is a sizeable portion. Additionally, not all 10 million are even close to being up to BigCorps peculiar standards (perhaps the standard is "someone competent enough that they could potentially build a competing product line"). Goog, Meta, Amazon, Apple, Oracle.. all have huge rosters and it adds u…

> being up to BigCorps peculiar standards

I'm glad you put it that way. It's not necessarily smarts or talent, but it does take a particular willingness for the institutional peculiarities to integrate with a big organization. I'm not one of those people, I tried it, and I will never do it again. I did note, you either had people who had just joined, or people who had been there for nearly a decade or more. I think of the word "institutionalized", as in, they had bought into the institution lifestyle, and were so full of it's arbitrary knowledge that moving on would be like starting over.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#60

Google would have been a lot more productive if it had hired people to work on one good messaging app instead of 13+ bad messaging apps. Google has long had an attitude of "we hire the best so we can afford to have them stand on one leg and balance on a ball while holding a cane in their mouth and balancing a bunch of dishes on the end of the cane while typing with one hand on a chorded keyboard and looking at a moni…

We’ll a lot of their products come out if individual side projects, Google is an incubator of sorts so I’m not surprised that’s how their product gets made.
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