Really random but one time i was at a training with this older women, & she refused to use the figure 8 knot in favor of the bowline knot :) I thought it was very funny
Essential Climbing Knots
81–90 of 151 posts
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#82It is interesting to note how Climbing and Sailing use different knots because each sport has different priorities or different threat models.
When it comes to knot strength (how much the knot reduces the rope's breaking strength), they are quite similar, both sports seek strong knots after all both sports can apply quite strong forces on the rope, so better not to weaken it.
But when it comes to knot security (how easily the knot fails to hold) they go to very different strategies. Sailing knots mostly seek a balance between good-enough security and practicality, mostly knots that one can still easily undo even after it was tightened by a very strong load on the rope. While climbing knots seek top security above all, even if they can be a pain in the ass sometimes to undo.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody does a bowline, that's insane because you can't ring-load (cross-load) it. [0] Europeans sometimes do the double bowline (traced), but the naming is ambiguous in english, so you have to google double bowline on a bight. Americans used to do yosemite bowlines, but that fell out of fashion because figure eight (safe and foolproof) and double bowline (safe, trivial to untie after hefty lead falls) cover literally…
A bowline with stopper is a pretty common climbing knot in the UK [0]. I don't have the expertise to weigh into any debates about how safe it is, but I've seen a lot of people use it without incident, and there's no question it's easier to untie than a rethreaded figure-eight. [0] https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/skills/how_to_tie_in_to_...
Also, Adam Ondra routinely climbs using this tie-in method for the reasons you mention.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#84I know that I'm highly unlikely to use any of these but I like to believe I will and I need to know. Recently, Knots3D[1] was on Hackernews Homepage and I bought the app. Now, while I'm waiting for something, and am not reading; instead of Twitter or other scrolling apps, I just watch the knots! One day, any day, at some fateful party with friends, we may need to tie a knot, any knot, and I'm going to pick up one fro…
I have a 3m piece of 550 next to my desk. I use that to practice knots while in meetings (that I'm not participating directly in) or pondering a challenging problem.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#85Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…
in the american northeast, backup knots on a figure 8 are relatively common in gyms and rare at the crag. (and when you do see them at the crag, they're a good gumby detector)
About 5-6 years ago the gyms became much more honest in their instruction for new climbers, and will now actually say the quiet part out loud, which is that a backup knot is really there to 1. ensure that new climbers leave enough of a tail on the figure 8 and 2. are a way to prevent that probably extremely conservative tail from whacking you in the balls when you take a whipper.
sport gyms absolutely do not like people who insist on tying in with a bowline.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#86I know that I'm highly unlikely to use any of these but I like to believe I will and I need to know. Recently, Knots3D[1] was on Hackernews Homepage and I bought the app. Now, while I'm waiting for something, and am not reading; instead of Twitter or other scrolling apps, I just watch the knots! One day, any day, at some fateful party with friends, we may need to tie a knot, any knot, and I'm going to pick up one fro…
Watching is unlikely to help. I tell scouts to practice them before bed and then practice them in bed after the lights are out. Tieing them in the dark gives you practice on how the rope feels, the relationship of your hands, and how a well tied one feels. A few of these kids have had to tie knots while assembling a tent in driving rain, lashing to a tree, tying them over their heads, etc (most of course have not!).…
I'll have to remember the "tie them in bed" thing. I tell scouts that their basic knots should be known "cold, wet, and blind" for the same reasons.
If we're doing knot relays, I'll also have them do it with gloves, or eyes closed, or tie the knot behind their back. Also gives a great sense of accomplishment when they finish.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#87Note that the monkey’s fist is an illegal knot everywhere in Australia and you can go to jail just for tying one.
what??? Why? Is it classified as a weapon or something?
As has been noted elsewhere in the thread, the knot is NOT illegal in and of itself in Australia or anywhere else. The poster is exaggerating.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#88Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…
Indeen! I've been taught that securing the trace eight could be dangerous when, in case of emergency, another rope is (supposedly) attached to the trace eight, but accidentally attached between the trace eight and the securing knot.
Same if you're lead climbing, there is a small chance (if you left a longish tail end) to clip the wrong part of the rope. If if it does not directly result in a dangerous fall you might trap yourself inside a quickdraw.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#89Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…
in the american northeast, backup knots on a figure 8 are relatively common in gyms and rare at the crag. (and when you do see them at the crag, they're a good gumby detector) About 5-6 years ago the gyms became much more honest in their instruction for new climbers, and will now actually say the quiet part out loud, which is that a backup knot is really there to 1. ensure that new climbers leave enough of a tail on…
Ive also always been in the the camp that this "backup" knot isn't backing up anything. If you want to finish the knot, the correct way to do it would be a Yosemite finish.
Re: Essential Climbing Knots
#90It is interesting to note how Climbing and Sailing use different knots because each sport has different priorities or different threat models. When it comes to knot strength (how much the knot reduces the rope's breaking strength), they are quite similar, both sports seek strong knots after all both sports can apply quite strong forces on the rope, so better not to weaken it. But when it comes to knot security (how e…
gyms only force the figure height because people are less likely to screw it up and it's easy to check for far away if it was done correctly
Outside climbers and rope-access often use other alternatives like the figure-nine or double bowline that are easier to untie