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Essential Climbing Knots

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Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#61

Post by quchen »

leksak wrote: post #23
peterbraden wrote: post #10

These are decent for climbing, but for the rest of life you also want the bowline, which is easy to untie after being loaded. Ring bend should only really be used for webbing.

Preferably a bowline with a stopper knot or a inherently secure bowline like the End Bound Single Bowline (EBSB) or Scott's Locked Bowline

These seem to be more complicated versions of the Yosemite Bowline; do you have any info on that one? It’s been my go-to bowline for all applications (climbing, sailing), yet now I’m wondering whether it has some weakness I don’t know about.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#63

Post by beefield »

endgame wrote: post #45
codeduck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stupid question from a sailor: how does a trace eight differ from a standard figure of eight?

It's a loop knot made using a figure-8, then retracing the knot with the tail. Climbers use it where sailors would tend to use a bowline. I've heard various reasons why: "it's easier to teach people in the gym", "it's harder to get wrong", "the dynamic ropes climbers use put bowlines at risk of capsizing".

My understanding why bowlines are disliked in climbing community is that it may fail if the pull does not come from the long tail, but from inside the loop. That is, cliiping two carabiners to bowline loop and pulling the carabiners apart is not a safe way to use bowline.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#64

Post by dmos62 »

gumby wrote: post #27

Note that the monkey’s fist is an illegal knot everywhere in Australia and you can go to jail just for tying one.

This might provide some context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtWl9Mz2SPg

A "self-defense" keychain with a 1 inch steel ball enclosed within a monkey fist knot at the end. At 0:18 the demonstrator smashes a laptop with it. I found that pretty funny.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#65

Post by jfindley »

kyledrake wrote: post #26

Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…

This is really regional. In some countries most people use the second knot, in others most don't. E.g. I've rarely seen it used in the US, but it's standard practice in much of europe.

Whichever you do, if you do it different to the majority view for the region you can often end up with some heavily-opinionated person coming up and telling you that you're doing it wrong so I mostly switch depending on where I am. It's easier than trying to explain that [whichever way] is fine and common practice elsewhere.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#66

Post by 2mol »

endgame wrote: post #45
codeduck wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

stupid question from a sailor: how does a trace eight differ from a standard figure of eight?

It's a loop knot made using a figure-8, then retracing the knot with the tail. Climbers use it where sailors would tend to use a bowline. I've heard various reasons why: "it's easier to teach people in the gym", "it's harder to get wrong", "the dynamic ropes climbers use put bowlines at risk of capsizing".

Nobody does a bowline, that's insane because you can't ring-load (cross-load) it. [0]

Europeans sometimes do the double bowline (traced), but the naming is ambiguous in english, so you have to google double bowline on a bight.

Americans used to do yosemite bowlines, but that fell out of fashion because figure eight (safe and foolproof) and double bowline (safe, trivial to untie after hefty lead falls) cover literally every use case perfectly.

[0]: https://www.saferclimbing.org/en/blog/cross-loading-on-knots

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#67

Post by jfindley »

gumby wrote: post #27

Note that the monkey’s fist is an illegal knot everywhere in Australia and you can go to jail just for tying one.

This is [k]not true. You'll often find these at wharves in Australia. They can be viewed as an offensive weapon, so an aggravating factor in an assault (which is probably where the misunderstanding comes from), but the knot itself is perfectly legal and used by sailors as the weighted end of a heaving line.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#68

Post by jmcgough »

geewee wrote: post #40
kyledrake wrote: post #26

Random comment: Securing the trace eight with a second knot is really not necessary, as it is a self tightening knot. Most climbers don't do it, my climbing safety book doesn't show it and all gyms I've been too, sans one in Vancouver WA for some reason, don't require it. Rough rule is two fists length for the tail and you're good. Another comment mentioned this too, it's much easier to untie if tied in a specific wa…

I recall being taught it just so the rope doesn't hang around, get caught on things and bother you.

Same - it's not really functional as much as that it keeps the end from being annoying. The alternative is doing a yosemite finish, which a number of my friends prefer.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#69

Post by gadders »

beefield wrote: post #17

It's missing European Death Knot. https://www.theclimbingguy.com/european-death-knot/

There was an article on HN a while back about a particular way of tying a rope to two pins at the top of a cliff in sort of a y-shape that doubles the stresses on the rope rather than reduces it (apologies if the details are wrong - I don't climb). I wish I could find the article.

Re: Essential Climbing Knots

#70

Post by MrVandemar »

panzerklein wrote: post #41
MrVandemar wrote: post #33

That's what I did during lockdown - got a knot book, taught myself twenty knots. A manager noticed and dared me to tie them blindfold. Did so, and won myself a metre of licorish!

Which you proceeded to tie into a knot, I presume

Alas no, it was quite a wide ribbon and the licorice didn't quite have the strength. Tasted good though.
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