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The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

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Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#51

Post by washbrain »

Someone wrote: post #39
washbrain wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know the circumstances, though. I can imagine dozens of scenarios where someone would be forced or feel forced to wait this long, or experience a change in their life that makes them rethink carrying the fetus to term. The victims here are the two people who are standing trial, and no amount of, "Welllllll buuuuut, it was pretty late... soooo..." changes the fact that two women will needlessly have their li…

IMO, the aborted child is the main victim. In all likelihood, it was healthier than the average child born at 28 weeks, and most of those survive. Yes, there may be mitigating circumstances, and that should affect the severity of any punishment, but from the info I read here, it looks looks highly likely (1) these women are guilty, and because of that it IMO is good that the government tried to find out whether they…

> In all likelihood, it was healthier than the average child born at 28 weeks

How do you know that about this case? "Statistically speaking" only works when talking about groups, not individuals.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#52

Post by sp527 »

washbrain wrote: post #42
sp527 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could the fetus have survived? Who could say. Can someone ELI5 why this is the standard? Shouldn't it be something more reasonable like "has a relatively developed brain", "can experience pain", "shows early signs of consciousness", "has major organs", "is a recognizably bipedal/human lifeform", etc? Every cutoff I've encountered seems to be entirely subjective and like it reduces down to "whatever I find political…

For me, personally, I believe that human pregnancy is unusual. Most mammalian mothers can self terminate pregnancy if desired, by cutting off the flow of resources to their fetus. Humans are somewhat unique in that they can't. Our fetuses are parasitic, and attempt to force the mother to carry them to term through endocrinological trucks. Except... We can now disrupt that parasitism and join every other mammalian spe…

Setting aside that thinking of pregnancy as a "parasitic relationship" is a somewhat deranged perspective that very few people likely share, we have a rather robust toolkit for dealing with this problem that doesn't have to tread on moral gray areas: contraception, plan b, pregnancy tests.

I'm also not saying pregnancies shouldn't be terminable by choice, to be clear. I'm inquiring about how we justify placing the line where it is in the usual standard.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#53

Post by teachrdan »

adamrezich wrote: post #40
samfisher83 wrote: post #14

It was court ordered. Facebook didn't just give this information voluntarily to police.

I have not read the article (and don't intend to) but this here headline is an astoundingly well-crafted work of attention-catching rage-bait art . in eleven mere words, you get: - Facebook (fuck em) - giving collected personal data (fuck that) to - the police (fuck em) because - a teen had an abortion (fuck yeah(?)) - and needs to be prosecuted because said teen presumably lives somewhere where this is illegal (fuck…

But perhaps you want to read the article to learn the facts of what happened?

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#54

Post by adamrezich »

teachrdan wrote: post #53
adamrezich wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not read the article (and don't intend to) but this here headline is an astoundingly well-crafted work of attention-catching rage-bait art . in eleven mere words, you get: - Facebook (fuck em) - giving collected personal data (fuck that) to - the police (fuck em) because - a teen had an abortion (fuck yeah(?)) - and needs to be prosecuted because said teen presumably lives somewhere where this is illegal (fuck…

But perhaps you want to read the article to learn the facts of what happened?

why?

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#55

Post by fitblipper »

samfisher83 wrote: post #14

It was court ordered. Facebook didn't just give this information voluntarily to police.

The problem is the 3rd party doctrine. The data should not be treated as if it is Facebook's to give away. Instead it should be the defendant that receives the request for their data using the proper warrant process. Instead governments incentivize companies like facebook, google, and amazon to collect all the private data on citizens that the people need to live in the society and then they claim it is no longer the people's data so they have an easy path to obtain it without a balance in place to apply the proper amount of friction to getting that data.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#56

Post by washbrain »

988747 wrote: post #48
creato wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully believe abortion should be reasonably legal, and if it were more accessible it may have prevented a lot of the tragedy of this case. But given the details in this article, it seems like this case would be criminal even in that hypothetical world.

The keyword here is “reasonably”. What I hate the most is “lifestyle abortion” when a woman says she’s not ready for a baby, but at the same time treats sex like a cheap entertainment, fucking her way through dozens of guys.

Sex is cheap entertainment, and should be. It feels good, it's your body, why should anyone have any judgements about how you use it. Let me fuck the men and women and non binary pals I want, it doesn't affect you.

One should be able to have sex separate from concerns about having to carry a fetus to term.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#57

Post by bpodgursky »

guelo wrote: post #43
sbierwagen wrote: post #2

>In this case, Burgess was 28 weeks pregnant, which is later in pregnancy than mifepristone and misoprostol are recommended for use. 28 weeks is, of course, 7 months. Third trimester elective abortion is illegal in the UK, Spain, France, Germany...

Why is the European angle suddenly in every abortion discussion? I'm fascinated by how these kind of talking points emerge and then are suddenly everywhere, must be some kind of influencer coordination. (I'll probably get down voted for this because whenever I bring this kind of thing up people seem to get personally offended. Even though it's not your talking point, you picked up somewhere recently)

Because it's incredibly annoying to hear Europeans to complain about the oppression of US abortion laws which are actually more permissive than the ones in their own country.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#58

Post by llanowarelves »

adamrezich wrote: post #40
samfisher83 wrote: post #14

It was court ordered. Facebook didn't just give this information voluntarily to police.

I have not read the article (and don't intend to) but this here headline is an astoundingly well-crafted work of attention-catching rage-bait art . in eleven mere words, you get: - Facebook (fuck em) - giving collected personal data (fuck that) to - the police (fuck em) because - a teen had an abortion (fuck yeah(?)) - and needs to be prosecuted because said teen presumably lives somewhere where this is illegal (fuck…

Vice is one of the best at it. Read their comment section on fb. The comments are almost all the gut response they wanted to elicit from the headline. Even in the cases when their own full piece is different.

Purely from a people-programming standpoint, I respect them as masters at it.

It's not just Vice either. But the info-tainment nature of the brand seems to lend itself really well to it.

Re: The Data Facebook Gave Police to Prosecute a Teenager for Abortion

#59

Post by botverse »

guelo wrote: post #43
sbierwagen wrote: post #2

>In this case, Burgess was 28 weeks pregnant, which is later in pregnancy than mifepristone and misoprostol are recommended for use. 28 weeks is, of course, 7 months. Third trimester elective abortion is illegal in the UK, Spain, France, Germany...

Why is the European angle suddenly in every abortion discussion? I'm fascinated by how these kind of talking points emerge and then are suddenly everywhere, must be some kind of influencer coordination. (I'll probably get down voted for this because whenever I bring this kind of thing up people seem to get personally offended. Even though it's not your talking point, you picked up somewhere recently)

Because in Europe there are a lot of civilised countries with freedoms to aspire to.
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