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The Story of Mel (1983)

cs.utah.edu

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Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#121
post #28

I hope I never have to work with someone like him. He sounds awful.

There is a saying "autres temps, autres moeurs" In a way I agree - someone programming like this right now without very good cause would be a bit of a nightmare if you ever had to tangle with their code. But it really was another world back then. They were so resource constrained [1]. That "drum" wasn't the hard disk, it was the memory! Think about waiting for the rotation of a drum for each instruction read. Then th…

In 1998 I was bringing up a new MIPS-based board that had been designed in-house

The CPU booted from an EEPROM and started running code. There was an FPGA on the board that controlled the memory. The FPGA needed to be loaded with a bit-stream that was also on the EEPROM. The trick was that I had to write a program to load the FPGA without referencing any memory -- I only had ROM and the CPU registers. Fortunately the MIPS had quite a few registers, but I had to abuse all the register-use conventions and the code jumped through some hoops in order to be able to get the FPGA loaded so we could start running from RAM.

There was all kinds of crazy stuff that was weird with that hardware that we had to fix in software... I didn't realize until switching jobs exactly how weird things were, I just thought it was normal.

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe being able to figure out strangers' discord passwords. More generally, phishing powers

I think in this context, 'hacker' means more 'one that twiddles bits' than 'one that twiddles others bits'.

The definition of 'hacker' was changed and is a moving target over the years.

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#123

The Story of Mel, explained: https://jamesseibel.com/the-story-of-mel/ Great addition to the original story, as there's lots of background required for modern readers.

Discussed once here:

The Story of Mel Explained - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9913835 - July 2015 (25 comments)

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#126

Maybe not really appropriate for a site called Hacker _News_. The site name suggests something new should be posted.

I think of the "new" in the "news" in "hacker news" as being like the used clothing store in my home town that used to be called "New to You".

HN is for anything that gratifies intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). Sometimes that's news in the usual sense of the word, but often it's more obscure things, and those are welcome here.

In the case of classics/perennials like the OP, there are of course a lot of readers for whom the story is anything but new, but it's important that we also take care of the newer cohorts of users and make sure they get some exposure to the classics too. That's one reason why reposts are allowed after a year or so.

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#127
Don't miss this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20489273 (edit: from kps via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32400756 - thanks!)

The OP has been posted so many times that even 10+ years ago people would mention how often it had already appeared. Yet there have been surprisingly few interesting discussions, either of the original story or in related threads. These are all I could find. If there are others, please let me know!

The Story Of Mel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7869771 - June 2014 (77 comments)

The story of Mel (1983) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=678999 - June 2009 (22 comments)

The story of Mel, a Real Programmer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=181144 - May 2008 (9 comments)

Related threads:

Mel's Loop – A Comprehensive Guide to The Story of Mel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31458048 - May 2022 (2 comments)

LGP-30 – A Drum Computer of Significance - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20484330 - July 2019 (39 comments)

The Story of Mel Explained - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9913835 - July 2015 (25 comments)

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#128
post #87
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for FGJKQW is simple: Look at the list of single-letter mnemonics for the 16 opcodes (called “orders” in the manual you cite). Sort them alphabetically, and look for the first six letters that are unused. Viola! (Of course, the problematic letter O is skipped, and for some reason, V as well.) That’s how it was explained to me in 1973 by Mr. Willoughby, a math teacher who also taught Computer Programming in…

> And his reason for starting with machine language? “Well, you can’t expect anyone to understand what’s really going on in higher-level languages if you don’t know what’s happening underneath, right?” Worked for me. I teach a middle school class called "Computer Organization and Design". It's basically from gates and truth tables, up to implementing ALU functions, to understanding bits of sequential logic... then so…

Amazing!

And it parallels the early learning my peer group and I experienced in the 80's.

We had Apple 2 type computers to work with and a small group of us were split off to do a deeper dive education. And really it was a sort of student guided education.

Basically, the teacher asked is to declare what we were going to try and do and that was more about making sure we did something besides play games than it was anything else.

So we did that and came to the same conclusion!

And that kicked off a love of the lower level computing that persists to this day. 6502 was not too difficult and what the teacher did was of high value:

They found us the info we needed. Data books, magazines, whatever contained material we could use. And we attacked it together.

One thing I picked up on super early was the powers of two and how it really all boils down to address lines! Was a great insight for a young person and I remember teaching others about hexadecimal, the first 16 powers of two and lots of number related things.

Others had something they grokked and together we learned a ton, each person teaching what they could to the others and doing projects together.

And we are talking stuff like:

Count numbers 0 to 9999999 on screen

Draw a Sprite and move it around

Play music on the speaker

Do maths of various kinds.

These were all slow or impractical using the Applesoft BASIC.

In assembly language, they made sense and were performant.

As machine code, they could be loaded from disk and called by BASIC.

The logic parts took me a while, but the moment AND, OR, XOR started to make sense was the moment I really started to do computing. Those things and the numbers and how they are used to represent stuff was the core of all that was to come.

We all sort of came to that understanding and it was all a beautiful experience. One of the best bits of it was our teacher being curious and as playful as we were! The tech was literally intoxicating.

Bet your experiences are much the same.

For what it is worth, the other core piece was I/O. That moment when one realizes they can POKE a number into a register, and for that matter knowing what a register vs. a RAM memory were, and then seeing an LED or hearing a speaker click were the absolute BEST!

In my view, making sure we have this kind of education happening is super important and ultra high value.

It is no different from the other basics:

Money

Wood

Metal

Computing

Cars and farm machinery

Electronics

Etc...

Many of my class ended High School with good, all around basic competency. I grew up in sometimes profound poverty. For me, it was actually a benefit because I was lucky to be among people who did not judge and gave me opportunity to put all those learned skills to use.

Made a huge difference in my own life.

But the same can be said of just about all the students I know being exposed to what I will just call fundamental type education. Everyone was capable and ready and able to learn just about anything.

Looking back at my class, a fair number of us went to college. Another big slice went into the various trades, and some into business.

The ones who were not involved in the fundemental type education generally struggled more.

Now this is all anecdotal, but I do find common themes when these discussions happen. Generally speaking, it can really help people and rarely hurts them to be exposed to potent basics early in life.

Well done.

What have they done with their little computers? Anything notable? If you can share, please do.

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#129
post #92
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks very identical ;) just so much more modern. A lot smaller and the screen is so much more fancy. Think that with old style boards, old-style chips, old-style number screen.

Yah! I was familiar with old "microprocessor trainers" and I tried to recreate that. There's nice on-chip debug that makes writing a monitor to do this pretty easy. I was more thinking-- curriculum? How old were you? Anything particular stick with you that I should be sure to include?

I was 17 to 19 at the time. We had everything, from math, physics, electronics, chip design (board layout simulation etc), micro processors (and after a year assembler on a DOS PC), networking, operating systems (mainframe + Unix + NT), C, Pascal, VBA. Add generic programming, English, project management and some other courses you need for soft skills. 18 months, 40 hours a week, two tests a week all with a full stipend for everyone. After that, you are hardened.

So the curriculum mentioned was more contextual than specific to microcontrollers. They created generalists which are capable of deep diving where they are then used within the company. For microprocessor in detail, I think they focused on translating algorithmic problems and higher level constructs into op codes (something like tail calls).

Re: The Story of Mel (1983)

#130
post #30

In 1997 I was doing an apprenticeship. It had a very well organized curriculum and well thought courses. One course was based on 8080/8085 cpu. You know what they gave us: A development board (roughly the size of a modern mainboard) with onboard hex keyboard 0-9a-f and 3-4 function keys (halt, run, write at ... something like that). And a book and templated paper. So the exercises, 3-4 hours every week, were: Impleme…

Hey, exactly the same I did in my apprenticeship! Only a few years earlier (1988 in my case).

My class batch had a number int 40s. It is very much possible that we attended the same school.
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