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Thank You, Firebug (2017)

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Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#41

Post by geerlingguy »

netsharc wrote: post #33
mongol wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure. I think Firebug, Gmail and Google Maps are approximately of the same age and they all opened up a new era, showing the way to a more modern web. I am unsure if the Web 2.0 moniker applies to what happened around this time but I think it was around then too.

Isn't Web 2.0 the web with user-contributed content, i.e. social media? For me, being part of Web 2.0 would not be something to be proud about, it's the tech that brought uninformed, angry populist rage online...

I think Web 2.0 was more when the web became more interactive. Instead of only static web pages there were forums, UIs that responded to your actions, and early social networks (but not the modern monsters we currently have). It enabled them, but it wasn't strictly "Web 2.0".

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#44

Post by listless »

annnoo wrote: post #11

Wow, i almost forgot about Firebug. From my point of view it was really a game changer. The first time debugging and understanding web-applications became accessible. Probably all browser dev tools were inspired by this tool

Firebug enabled me to be a "real" web developer. Prior to that I was just slinging ASPX files with no real idea what I was doing. This tool was the gold standard for powerful developer tools that aren't overly complicated.

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#45

Post by hu3 »

andrew_ wrote: post #23

Being able to embed that in IE was just a total leap forward. Anyone who remembers the ambiguous "A JavaScript error occurred..." dialogs with zero helpful information will probably also remember the first time that Firebug gave you the actual location and file of the error. Breakpoints?! Amazing.

Oof. I get PTSD from "A JavaScript error occurred".

I knew I was in for an alert() debugging session when that error showed up.

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#47

Post by hajile »

ransom1538 wrote: post #38
JohnBooty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash absolutely would have become more entrenched. You get the feeling that Apple wasn't going to support Adobe's Flash plugin on the iPhone, no matter what. Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes. They weren't going to pour billions into the iPhone just to have it be a delivery mechanism for Adobe's mess of a runtime. I see three alternate histories: 1. The iPhone launches without Flash, and it flop…

"Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes." Lol. The reason Apple didn't support Flash was it was too good. If flash was supported 100% (practically natively) - there would be no point creating native apps in objective C (Flash was a full decade ahead). Flash devs would have coded circles around objective C devs. This could have screwed over the entire ios ecosystem. Once flash was dead and gone: SWIFT!

I ran flash on Android phones of the time and flash absolutely did have a huge affect on battery life.

Given the number of bugs in Flash (and how long Adobe took to fix them), I believe this is also reasonable.

I believe that competition was a real motivator, but it wasn't the only reason.

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#48

Post by heleninboodler »

ransom1538 wrote: post #38
JohnBooty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash absolutely would have become more entrenched. You get the feeling that Apple wasn't going to support Adobe's Flash plugin on the iPhone, no matter what. Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes. They weren't going to pour billions into the iPhone just to have it be a delivery mechanism for Adobe's mess of a runtime. I see three alternate histories: 1. The iPhone launches without Flash, and it flop…

"Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes." Lol. The reason Apple didn't support Flash was it was too good. If flash was supported 100% (practically natively) - there would be no point creating native apps in objective C (Flash was a full decade ahead). Flash devs would have coded circles around objective C devs. This could have screwed over the entire ios ecosystem. Once flash was dead and gone: SWIFT!

> The reason Apple didn't support Flash was it was too good.

The competition with native may have been part of the consideration, but this was far from the full argument. It was also much too bad. It was power hungry, as noted by others, because flash content tended to be driven by a million timers, but also, its interaction model was a disaster on touch screens. Even on desktop, one of the problems with Flash content was confusion about whether UI events were owned by some object inside the Flash widget or the enclosing browser. Plus, Flash was a whole universe of nonstandard UI elements that would have made uptake of the iphone interface more difficult.

There is no part of me that believes the idea that "Flash devs could have coded circles around objective C devs." If the mobile app explosion had happened in Flash, it wouldn't have been an explosion. It would have been a flop.

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#49

Post by dmitriid »

ransom1538 wrote: post #38
JohnBooty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash absolutely would have become more entrenched. You get the feeling that Apple wasn't going to support Adobe's Flash plugin on the iPhone, no matter what. Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes. They weren't going to pour billions into the iPhone just to have it be a delivery mechanism for Adobe's mess of a runtime. I see three alternate histories: 1. The iPhone launches without Flash, and it flop…

"Too battery-inefficient, too laden with security holes." Lol. The reason Apple didn't support Flash was it was too good. If flash was supported 100% (practically natively) - there would be no point creating native apps in objective C (Flash was a full decade ahead). Flash devs would have coded circles around objective C devs. This could have screwed over the entire ios ecosystem. Once flash was dead and gone: SWIFT!

> The reason Apple didn't support Flash was it was too good

It wasn't good on mobile. And at that point it was barely good on desktop, too. By good we mean: power and memory consumption, security vulnerabilities etc.

You just don't remember how badly Adobe mismanaged the whole thing.

Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)

#50

Post by irrational »

Firebug is why I've been using Firefox as my primary browser since Firebug first came out. Firebug was such a huge game changer for web development. Before firebug we had to use alerts or writing to the DOM to debug. It is hard to imagine a web development world without Inspect, Console, etc., but that was the reality for many years. Then Firebug came around! Eventually Chrome added developer tools, but I was so used to Firebug that I never even tried Chrome. I was quite sad when Firefox created official developer tools and Firebug ceased to exist. It was hard letting go of an old friend who led the way.
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