Wow, i almost forgot about Firebug.
From my point of view it was really a game changer. The first time debugging and understanding web-applications became accessible. Probably all browser dev tools were inspired by this tool
Thank You, Firebug (2017)
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Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#12Firebug was some truly excellent work - but I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman - which in turn built upon the js/jsd low-level debugging APIs inside the mozilla suite. https://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ edit: there's a nice write-up of how firebug got started here https://flailingmonkey.com/the-history-of-firebug
> I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman
Is it, really? The experience of Venkman was horrendous. Not quite as bad as MS’s Script Debugger (I don’t remember venkman crashing multiple times per session, and it was able to debug the toplevel frame), but still just awful all around.
And more relevant, it was nothing special, at least that I remember. It was notable in being a “normal” extension, but that aside it was a pretty standard if not sub-par debugger experience for the time.
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#13Wow, i almost forgot about Firebug. From my point of view it was really a game changer. The first time debugging and understanding web-applications became accessible. Probably all browser dev tools were inspired by this tool
Not only probably. It created the gold standard.
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#14I still miss the possibility to `console.log` functions and have a clickable log that automatically open the right source at the right line, something that it's still not available on "native" `console`s
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#15I still miss the possibility to `console.log` functions and have a clickable log that automatically open the right source at the right line, something that it's still not available on "native" `console`s
Can't you click on the filename/number on the right hand side? That works for me in Chrome. Source maps even allow it to open to the correct file inside Chrome.
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#16Firebug was a game-changer when I discovered it back in 2008 or so. I wasn't a particularly good developer then, and the complete lack of debugging tools made it even worse: alert("this thing happened!") was literally the only way to debug anything (that I knew of anyway). Afterwards, IIRC, Microsoft released a debugger for IE built into Visual Studio, and later both IE and Chrome followed Firebugs footsteps.
I wasn't a particularly good developer then,
and the complete lack of debugging tools made
it even worse
Firebug changed that. It truly paved the way for actually-sane client side development/debugging.
It is not an understatement to say that Firebug changed the world.
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#17Wow, i almost forgot about Firebug. From my point of view it was really a game changer. The first time debugging and understanding web-applications became accessible. Probably all browser dev tools were inspired by this tool
Not only probably. It created the gold standard.
Also because I think Firefox had firebug and Google hired the firebug guy to work on chrome?
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#18Firebug was some truly excellent work - but I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman - which in turn built upon the js/jsd low-level debugging APIs inside the mozilla suite. https://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ edit: there's a nice write-up of how firebug got started here https://flailingmonkey.com/the-history-of-firebug
> I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman Is it, really? The experience of Venkman was horrendous. Not quite as bad as MS’s Script Debugger (I don’t remember venkman crashing multiple times per session, and it was able to debug the toplevel frame), but still just awful all around. And more relevant, it was nothing special, at least that I remember. It was notable in being a “normal” extension, but…
I do remember Venkman crashing multiple times, but to be fair it was the older "sort of stand-alone"-ish Venkman. The later version packed as an extension was a bit more stable.
But going back to the relevance subject, I don't really think it is worth mentioning. But not because of performance but because it was a fairly different thing. Mostly just a JS debugger with a couple of additional tools and little/no support. Usually you would need a bunch of other scripts such as XRAY [0] and others to reach a functionality somewhat comparable to Firebug.
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#19Firebug was some truly excellent work - but I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman - which in turn built upon the js/jsd low-level debugging APIs inside the mozilla suite. https://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ edit: there's a nice write-up of how firebug got started here https://flailingmonkey.com/the-history-of-firebug
> I think it's worth also mentionining its precursor Venkman Is it, really? The experience of Venkman was horrendous. Not quite as bad as MS’s Script Debugger (I don’t remember venkman crashing multiple times per session, and it was able to debug the toplevel frame), but still just awful all around. And more relevant, it was nothing special, at least that I remember. It was notable in being a “normal” extension, but…
Strong disagree. Compared to Venkman, Firebug had the following misfeatures:
- modal interface*
- bloat
- dubious** interface labels, like "DOM" (or whatever) to look at the object's property tree
- totally sucked at debugging any part of the Gecko runtime/toolkit code, or anything that wasn't a Web page (including e.g. Firebug's own code)
* This is a misfeature that every browser's built-in devtools copied, and it's completely mystifying. Thanks, Firebug, but I want the script debugger to be separate from the DOM Inspector, so I can have both on screen at the same time (and I want to be able to have multiple inspectors for multiple objects open at the same time, too, for that matter, so I don't have to keep flipping back and forth between them like I'm navigating fullscreen mobile apps and being forced to think through a straw. I don't even use multiple large displays; I use a 13" laptop screen for everything. No idea why all the proponents of large, multi-screen setups don't bristle about this to an even noisier degree.)
** Generous description; "inaccurate" (or just plain "wrong") would be accurate
Re: Thank You, Firebug (2017)
#20Internet Explorer 6 also had the Microsoft created IE Dev Toolbar that came out around the same time as Firebug (I think it was 6 months after?). It really was a powerful tool, but somehow not really well known in the dev world at that time.
I'm really sad that Microsoft put all thier eggs in the Chrome/Chromium basket, instead of continuing thier own engine, or supporting Firefox.